Brandi Ferenc: Retaining Women in the Trades

Lisa Laronde (00:01.183)
Welcome to the Powerhouse Project. I'm your host, Lisa LaRonde. On the episode today, we have Brandy. Welcome to the show, Brandy.

Brandi Ferenc (00:08.635)
Thanks Lisa.

Lisa Laronde (00:10.819)
Brandi is a real seal, red seal, apologies, a refrigeration and air conditioning system mechanic and a gas fitter at South Lake Regional Health Care Centre in Newmarket, Ontario. She's also an instructor at Georgian College and a Women in Skilled Trades mentor. Brandi, who are you and how did you get started in this industry?

Brandi Ferenc (00:30.359)
Oh man, we don't have enough time for that, Lisa. I'd say really at the bare bones of it right now, my main mission is to really educate and advocate for the change of the culture and the skilled trades. So when I say who am I, that's really what I look at this next leg of my life as of my journey. But in the skilled trades about 20 years now, I don't even know where the time went.

Lisa Laronde (00:32.687)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Brandi Ferenc (00:55.002)
And I kind of snuck in the back door before anybody knew I was there. So it wasn't, it wasn't easy to get in. It was pre social media days. So I assumed there was tons of women doing these amazing jobs. And I came, I came to the harsh reality that there wasn't, uh, nor did I feel very welcome coming into the industry. So, um, through a bit of a zigzag path, I did a bit of a pre-apprentice program. Um, ended up at a construction company that had nothing to do with the carpentry program I took.

Lisa Laronde (01:06.883)
Wow.

Brandi Ferenc (01:24.322)
and ended up having a plumbing apprenticeship with my first apprenticeship. Through that, I was working all day, getting a gas fitter ticket at night, and then lucky me, after competing at the Skills Ontario competition, actually in 2007, I was the first female to compete in the heating systems competition. And I know in 2007, right?

And I placed third and a recruiter reached out. So I packed up my life and I moved to London, Ontario and I started another apprenticeship in air conditioning and refrigeration. And that's the current trade obviously that you mentioned that I'm a licensed journey person in now, so.

Lisa Laronde (02:03.395)
That's awesome. Now how did you end up in the competition? Did you just choose to participate or?

Brandi Ferenc (02:08.742)
No, actually it's very cool. The colleges will end up getting a certain amount of slots. Actually, I'm now a judge at the competition, which has really brought that full circle for me. And so I kind of know a little bit about the ins and outs I didn't know before. So the schools will get so many slots and the instructors actually will pick which students they're going to enter into the competition. So I mean, I still look back on my instructor I had for all three levels of my gas ticket.

Lisa Laronde (02:17.462)
Oh, that's awesome.

Brandi Ferenc (02:37.486)
And Dan was a huge supporter of mine right from the beginning. In fact, I did not feel like I was the strongest student in the class and he entered two of us from his school. And, uh, yeah, so I was chosen to compete and, uh, yeah, I don't, I, looking back, I don't even know if Dan realized what an impact he would have on my life by choosing to put me in that competition. So it's, it's very cool.

Lisa Laronde (02:59.923)
Oh, that's awesome. So you work in, obviously, a male-dominated field. And I understand it only represents, women only represent about less than 1% of the industry. So what are some of the challenges that you faced?

Brandi Ferenc (03:04.396)
Yes.

Brandi Ferenc (03:14.418)
Yeah, currently from my license, I'm one of less than 50 women in Ontario. Yeah, and of the construction trades as a whole, women right now, 2.4% of apprenticeships are held by women. And that's the construction trade. So being more the industry mime in, because there's other trades that are more female dominated. So in the male dominated industries, that's what we represent as apprentices. Those are kind of before we become journey persons.

Lisa Laronde (03:19.535)
Holy cow. That's insane.

Brandi Ferenc (03:42.41)
And the sad reality is, of those 2.4% of women that are looking to be journey persons, only 0.7% are expected to make it to the finish line and become fully licensed journey persons. And then we don't have a number because it's too small. And I think we're in early days of people even wanting to know these numbers, but most of those women will take their license and they'll immediately leave the field.

and they'll use that license to pursue a more female-friendly career path. So maybe they'll go into sales, project estimating, things of that nature, right? So the reality is there's all the barriers. So we're looking at, you know, on any given day you might be met with, like, you know, there's obviously the stereotypes that go on. We face any, we face verbal, physical, sexual harassment on job sites.

I mean, let's face it, Ontario just celebrated last year that they mandated women having to have washrooms on job sites, right? So when somebody else was celebrating, I thought, how sad is that for us, right? It's unfortunate.

Lisa Laronde (04:45.719)
Yeah.

Lisa Laronde (04:51.275)
Yeah. Well, it's interesting, I was at a conference and they were saying that in Ontario there is zero human rights complaints from women in the construction industry. And it's interesting because I interviewed a civil litigator last week and I brought up the same status. There's zero human rights complaints for women in construction and she said, it's because they settle and so now we have no stats, which is unfortunate because

I really feel like we need to tell our stories that this still exists and that you're not alone and what are we gonna do to be able to fix that? So I think it's very, very important that we continue to tell our stories. So do you believe truly that harassment and discrimination are still existing on the job sites?

Brandi Ferenc (05:38.834)
Yeah, well, myself personally, I know when you did my intro, you mentioned the hospital I worked at. I've actually just recently left. So last year, I did end up having an incident that kind of was prolonged, but it came to a head last year. I actually filed a police report and it's the first time in my 20 years that I've ever said anything. And it was only brought to management by actually another coworker who actually feared for my personal

there was a, it definitely warranted that. And it was at that moment that I decided, you know what? In all of our little lady, tradie circles, we talk amongst ourselves, right? And we all have a similar story to tell. But the reality of it is, is I've never said anything in 20 years and I did a disservice in a way to my gender. But if I would have said something that was my career that would have been affected, maybe they would have settled, but I would never work again in the industry.

I would wear that scarlet letter even though I shouldn't. And I've had issues settled in parking lots. It'll be okay with a pad on the back. Well, you knew what you signed up for. This is just how it is, Brandy. And each time you swallow your pride, you deal with it in the best ways that you can.

You know what, what I'm living proof of is I've been in the trenches for 20 years in the field. And there's not a lot of women that have that longevity of working on the tools in the field for that long. But it all it all accumulates. Right. So your mental health suffers. We I talked to friends that, you know, we don't we don't know until you say they go, well, I almost had a nervous breakdown. And I was like, yeah, I did. I basically had my own little private breakdown that nobody knew about. Right. Because you just keep soldiering on. And that's the problem.

With Fairtrades Toolbox, my company that I started last year to help change this culture, it's interesting you talk about the stories because I started sharing stories of women that they submit with an anonymous link and I call it the truth of the trades. So, and these are stories that I have no idea who's sending them in, but when I first shared my story about a year and a half ago of just the last incident that happened to me.

Brandi Ferenc (07:56.382)
My inbox was flooded with women saying, you know, you're telling my story. Like, I can't believe, you know, there's somebody else out there. And, but yet from employers, what I hear is that, well, it's not like that anymore, Brandi, and I'm like, it is like that. We just don't talk about it.

Lisa Laronde (08:12.119)
Yeah, exactly. And I think it's really important. I know I was talking to Jamie McMillan and she was talking about if you're a part of the union hall and you complain about harassment, discrimination, you get put to the bottom of the list and then you don't get called up for the jobs. And the problem for that then is now you're not earning an income. And I was talking to one of the senior union leaders and I said, this is what's going on. And he said, no, that's not true. And...

I don't even know how to come back from that. I mean, these are the people that are leading our unions that don't actually believe that this is what's happening. And women will never come forward and complain if you're not able to earn an income. I talked to somebody else and she had to leave her job for the same reason. I talked to somebody else and they were like laid off because she was just too difficult to work with. And I'm like, this is something that we absolutely have to change. Do you have any...

Suggestions, recommendations, and how we move forward with some of this?

Brandi Ferenc (09:14.198)
Well, I think what makes the time that we live in unique is we have this skilled trades labor shortage and we have a spotlight for the first time on our industry. And the government has poured billions of dollars into these women in skilled trades events, right? We're going to talk to high school girls. We're bringing awareness to the opportunities. And that's where when I had my incident, I said, I threw all my chips up in the air and I said, you know, we have, this is the moment, right? If we have a moment where we have...

that we have any leverage in this industry because employers need to look to the other 50% of the population to fill these labor shortages, right? And we are in a time where, you know, women are, it's a viable career path, but the culture has to be there. So I always like to say, instead of coming and I don't wanna point fingers and, you know, talk about, you know, the archaic industry and culture, I think it's education, right? So.

So when all is said and done and the emotions kind of boil out and you're kind of calm and cool, it's through education, right? I believe that forward-thinking employers have an opportunity right now to kind of flip the script, right? So bringing in people like myself and others that may be doing similar work to help shift that culture so that we can educate them on how to properly onboard women into male-dominated teams so their male members of the team also feel valued.

We want to be a part of the team. That's what we want. We're not there to be the only one or to be the diversity hire. We want to be included. But I do believe that it's just from the unknown and if there's a couple guys that aren't cool with it, those other guys want to fit in. So some people will say, well, once the older guys retire, and I'm like, no, as an instructor, I had a 21 year old walk into my class last semester and say,

well, I didn't know there was gonna be women here, you know? And I'm like, it's a learned behavior, but as such, we can educate and we can help, you know, get rid of the myths and we can make everyone realize like, I don't, I'm a journey person, not a female journey person, right? So I think that that's what it comes down to, right? And there's a lot of good people in the industry, but I do believe that unfortunately, that negativity, it's contagious.

Lisa Laronde (11:23.8)
Yep. Yeah.

Lisa Laronde (11:29.887)
I agree.

Brandi Ferenc (11:35.974)
And wanting to hold on to that old boys club mentality, that's also contagious and it's bad.

Lisa Laronde (11:41.575)
And I agree with you. And I agree, I think the problem is, the intent isn't always there. I mean, sometimes it's there, but we've always accepted the behavior. So how do you change that if you've always accepted? I'd say the longer that you've been in the industry, I think the more tolerant you are. And that's why I said if we can tell our stories and we can continue to talk about it, to say this does exist, and we're not gonna change it overnight, but we actually have to.

to now stop and change the behavior. And I know one of the things we've done in our organization is we offer the Equity 101 training. And this is the first time we had four people talking to us, lead hands talking to us saying, you know, and I didn't understand that my behavior was this inappropriate, because no one's actually ever said to me before.

I'm taking this is this is how I'm taking it this is this is this is what you're saying to me and they're going that's not what I meant we thought it was funny and so I think we just need to keep talking about it and then we can change the behavior so what unique skill set do you think that women bring to the industry I agree

Brandi Ferenc (12:42.47)
Oh, man, what don't we bring to the industry? Um, like, let's just talk about conflict resolution. That's a good one, right? So, um, you know, I think women were amazing at, uh, we kind of empathize, right? And we're actually amazing at conflict resolution in a way that is non-confrontational. Right? How great would that be on a job site? How great would it be for you to have that asset of having that female energy there that's going to be able to diffuse a situation?

you know, and making everyone feel heard and seen and have resolution without it getting heated and possibly physical, right? And that's where we're at. So, I mean, conflict resolution is incredible. You know, our ability to multitask, right? Our ability to want that path forward and know what's next for us climbing that ladder in the skilled trades, right? There's lots of room for advancement in the trades. And I think that's one thing that's so beneficial to women.

And if an employer puts together, you know, that career path for a woman, it's one of those things, you know, she shows up every day and believe it or not, I know it sounds cliche, but we do, we work 10 times as hard because we have to, right? Just to be seen, but we're looking to be an asset. We're looking to be a part of the organization, right? We're loyal as the day is long and there's just, you know, I think there's no downside to diversity.

Lisa Laronde (13:53.987)
Yeah.

Brandi Ferenc (14:07.866)
My approach right now with skilled trades employers is, you know, when you talk to them about retention, although I come as an advocate for women, it works for everyone. It's for human beings. So the tools I have that will work in order to retain female talent, it's going to work for your male parties as well. And you know, retention goes up, employee satisfaction goes up, and employers make more money. And that's what they want at the end of the day, right?

Lisa Laronde (14:18.071)
Yes, yes.

Brandi Ferenc (14:34.238)
I know these guys are like, I just want to go out and do a job, Brandy. I just want to build stuff, fix stuff. I don't want to deal with all this HR, DEI. And it's like, well, you don't have to necessarily deal with it, but you have to be willing to reach out and say, I'm going to implement this. Or can you help us? Can you come and have a conversation with us? It all starts with a conversation, right?

Lisa Laronde (14:34.26)
Exactly.

Lisa Laronde (14:54.731)
Yeah, I agree. And I was just talking yesterday, I was saying, you know, we really need allyship. And one of the women in the audience came up to me afterwards and she goes, you know, this really pisses me off. I wanna be able to do it on my own. I don't need any help. And I said, the problem with that is we all need help. And I think as women, we don't ask for help when we need it and we need allyship in order for us to be successful and to be included, we actually need the men to be able to sponsor us and be an advocate for us.

And I think that that's really, really important to be successful.

Brandi Ferenc (15:28.866)
Yeah, and I think too that when you're talking about that allyship that also speaks to, you know, addressing that bystander, right? Like that passive bystander. It breaks my heart to say to tell this little tidbit, but a couple of weeks ago, I was at an event. I met a young woman again for the second time I sat up on a panel with her a couple of years ago and I was like, how's it going? She's an automotive apprentice, right? For a mechanic. And she switched jobs. And you know, she said to me,

Yeah, she goes, actually, I'm going to submit a story on your link. And I said, oh no, what happened? Well, she was walking through the shop and this young woman like in her early 20s, and obviously this gentleman might have been late 50s, 60s, he slapped her butt on the way through as she walked through the shop. She says, I froze. I didn't know what to say. I turned around. And she goes, when I turned around, there was five, five of the other guys in the shop were standing there and they saw what he did.

And she goes, it was one thing that he did it. And it felt like this entire other violation that nobody else even said anything about it. And even the guys that just, maybe there were guys that thought that was wrong. They knew it was wrong, but they just stood there and then they turned around and they went back to their job. Right? So when you talk about those allies, that's where I say, you know, everyone trying to fit in, but we have to flip that script where...

Lisa Laronde (16:38.107)
Exactly.

Brandi Ferenc (16:54.71)
We want people to want to be a part of, you know, the more forward thinking side, right? Not to try to protect that individual that's actually victimizing someone.

Lisa Laronde (17:04.179)
Exactly, and I think that's part of finding your voice and speaking up for one another. I think as women we don't do that enough, and I know that it's much more difficult in the skilled trades because there aren't a lot of women on job sites, and I agree with you about we need to actually have this onboarding to say, this is the environment that you're gonna work in, here's what you might be exposed to, and here's some of the strategies on how to deal with it. And if not, let's find a community that you can actually connect with.

so that we can stop some of the behaviors that are happening. Can you just tell me a little bit about some of the advocacy work that you've been doing, I guess from the beginning of your career?

Brandi Ferenc (17:42.186)
Oh man, yeah, it's something that came very natural. It's weird being the only female on a job site. I'll go back, I can go back to when I was only a 30-year apprentice, going to a wholesaler to get some parts and somebody said, hey, would you mind talking to this young woman? Our family knows a family and their daughter is, yeah, this is how, I mean, Lisa, it's crazy. Because we are like these odd little pieces in the universe and somehow we connect, which is beautiful.

Lisa Laronde (18:06.643)
Yeah.

Brandi Ferenc (18:10.89)
And they're like, and you know, she's in the skilled trades and she's having some effort, some, some struggles. So I mean, my advocacy started out mentoring. That's really, I didn't even know, I didn't even use that word before. I was just, you know, having a chat with someone or answering the phone, unfortunately, usually, usually for a young woman that's crying in a washroom somewhere and kind of trying to give her that, you know, you can do this speech, you know, and looking back, I didn't have the tools then to really, you know, process, well,

Lisa Laronde (18:30.348)
Yeah.

Brandi Ferenc (18:40.138)
You know what, there's a better way, but that's what I did back then. And that kind of parlayed itself into, you know, going to events, speaking as a whole. But those events were a little bit, they were a little bit tainted. It was like smoke and mirrors in the early days. We couldn't, I was asked specifically not to talk about anything negative. And they would tell me, well, everyone has a bad day at work, Brandy. And I was like, but do they have like this kind of-

Lisa Laronde (19:07.127)
Yeah.

Brandi Ferenc (19:08.094)
Right? And this is other women, again, being the ones that are organizing the events. And so then that morphed into me kind of having that light bulb moment and going, wait a second, you know, I really need to be able to change this. So a lot of the advocacy work I'm trying to push for right now is for that change in the trade. So I had a really great presentation for the first time with my own content in March.

So I spoke to a group of people in my own industry, so the mechanical industry at the CMPX show. It was called Culture Shock, and it was cool, eh? And in a way, it's to bring awareness, but without, I guess, I don't wanna alienate anyone because some people are very uncomfortable, right? There's this catch, that catch acronym, right, the DEI. So.

Lisa Laronde (19:44.078)
Yeah.

Brandi Ferenc (19:58.766)
kind of taking it as a holistic approach is your entire company is how I present. And the other thing I've been really passionate about is working with women, justice involved women. So I started going to a few of the facilities, one is in Kitchener. And I think that we're also missing that other piece of the puzzle, like culture change is slow and we need to make up some room quickly.

And I think that there's certain individuals like myself, it was a second career for me. Had I got into the trades at 20, I would be the first to admit I would have never made it. We would never be having this conversation. But I was 30, I had been in a bar for over a decade. So I was pretty much bulletproof to male conversation. And I think these women that are coming out of corrections that are looking for that second career, they've got the skin.

Lisa Laronde (20:45.761)
Yep.

Brandi Ferenc (20:53.062)
And I think they have a lot to offer, right? As far as coming into the trades, and they really could be a game changer for all of us to bring that visibility and strength. So as though that younger generation is coming in, they have those female allies on site, like what you were talking about, right? So in terms of advocacy, I think it's multifaceted. Ideally, I would love to get to talk to employers every day and organizational leaders.

But let's be honest, not that many people want to talk to me right now today. I think that that's going to change. And then I kind of am taking that other approach of trying to find creative solutions that not only are we helping with the skilled trades labor shortage, but we're going to be bulking up those numbers because the percentages of women in the trades, the needle's not moving because there's no retention, right?

Lisa Laronde (21:27.191)
Yes, I agree.

Lisa Laronde (21:43.463)
I know. Yes, I agree. Yep.

Brandi Ferenc (21:45.718)
So we can have someone say, oh, apprenticeship is up by 30% for women, but 30% from where, right? Or 30% of what? It's all how you present the numbers.

Lisa Laronde (21:56.415)
And I agree, and I think we're doing a really good job of attracting women, and I think we're doing a lot of that by getting into the schools, you know, targeting the much younger generation. But I agree with you. So what do you think that we can do to be able to retain women in the skilled trades?

Brandi Ferenc (22:11.658)
Yeah, I think the biggest thing we can do is really get those employers to embrace that, that you're not hiring someone for diversity. You are hiring the best person for the job, the best human being. And I think that they really need to take away their unconscious bias. And we all have that, let's be honest, right? Everyone gets that, judge a book by its cover. And I think that employers need to kind of take the blinders off.

And just almost in a sense, you know, whether we can find a way that they're more comfortable doing more of a blind interview, a third party interview, so they're not judging that individual, right? And really setting the metrics even. You know, you made a comment, like some women are dismissed by saying they're difficult to work with, right? But if that, are you saying there's never been a man that's been difficult to work with on a job site? So we're measured against different metrics, right?

So it really is like I wrote the same C of Q as my male counterparts, right? I wrote the same test. I put in the same amount of hours. It's all the same But when I get out in the field, I hear the same thing. Oh, you know, you don't have to act tough, right? And I and I hear difficult and all of these things I think ah man, like I Just had I just saw you guys arm wrestling at lunch, but I'm the one that's like acting

Lisa Laronde (23:29.623)
Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. It's like people tell me to, you know, quiet down or, you know, don't be so aggressive or assertive or whatever they say. And I go, it's interesting that when it's working for you, then my behavior is okay, but as soon as I'm saying something that's making you uncomfortable, all of a sudden now I'm this aggressive woman. Just, that stuff just drives me crazy.

Brandi Ferenc (23:52.606)
Yeah, and I think you hit the note, that word uncomfortable I love. So for me, I tell everyone, it starts with an uncomfortable conversation. One company reached out, we're gonna do an anonymous town hall, which I think is amazing. So like I said, with 20 years in the field, there's nothing I feel you can't ask. So what I wanna know from the male journey persons, male apprentices, men in the field is, what is your fear? What is your biggest concern? So I have people saying to me before, I even used to make jokes when guys would be like,

Ooh, we got to be careful of HR now because there's a woman here as I've been the first woman at every company I've worked at. And then I have to make some back comments saying, oh, you know what? I'm most likely to be to get the first HR complaint before you guys, right? Because I'm trying to be one of the guys, right? So it starts with this uncomfortable conversation because...

Lisa Laronde (24:35.799)
Yeah.

Brandi Ferenc (24:43.198)
Otherwise, the woman that's joining your crew, like myself, we are left to manage all these different personalities, right? So I'm left to make everyone else feel better about themselves. I have to make everyone feel comfortable. And at the same time, I'm expected to get a job done at the end of the day, which is insane, right? I just want to show up and fix stuff. That's my job. That's what I want to do, right? I don't want to be a psychologist when I go to work. I don't want to have to tiptoe around.

You know, say Paul, because Paul just got divorced and he's mad at women right now or whatever the case is, right? I just want to go to work. So it really starts with an uncomfortable conversation and people having to say to themselves, like employers, organizational leaders, like union heads saying, okay, all of this obviously isn't working for us anymore. So we have to do something differently, right? Whatever it is, we just, we need to take a different approach.

Lisa Laronde (25:36.771)
Yeah, yeah, I think it's, I don't know how we change the needle quickly, but we really do have to change the needle. And I think everything that you've said today is just so important. Why can't we just go to work and do our job? Why is it that we have to now fit into this, at this point, this male-dominated industry? Why can't we just go in and be ourselves? So in your opinion, what are some of the most effective strategies for increasing representation for women?

particularly in your industry or in actually in any of the construction industries.

Brandi Ferenc (26:08.162)
Yeah, first and foremost, don't hire, just hire one woman, right? So if you're interviewing several people, I think one of the most amazing, I love to talk to an employer that's had success hiring multiple, having several females on their crew, right? When you are onboarding women, make sure that before you hire a woman, you have PPE that will fit her, right? You've got gloves, we wear a different harness because our bodies are different. If you wear a uniform, contact your uniform supplier.

Lisa Laronde (26:13.432)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's a great thing.

Brandi Ferenc (26:37.182)
even before you even think of hiring a woman and make sure you can get your uniform in a woman's style and size. It's for safety, it's not for fashion, right? And I think most importantly, what the hospital did try to do, which actually I give them kudos for, I didn't find out about this until later, have a conversation with your existing team and let them know there's going to be some changes. You know that the times they are changing.

and you are actively looking to diversify the crew because every single person brings something different to the table, right? So when you bring a new person onto the team, like myself, for example, if I get to come in day one and I have a uniform that fits and I have PPE, I'm more likely to get started off on the right foot. I feel like I'm part of the team. I already stand out because I'm a female. I don't need to wear clothes that are two sizes too big, right? So...

Lisa Laronde (27:22.552)
Yeah.

Brandi Ferenc (27:32.018)
I love that that's the best thing I can say is let's get started off on the right foot and have a conversation with your existing team because as we all know, first impressions are so critical, right? And you want that initial experience to be positive for everyone. It's not just the female, it's your entire crew, right? And I think that that's important. And you know, if that means you've got to do a little bit, you mentioned Equity 101 training or whatever that company may do.

then yeah, you know what, we've got to have a conversation about it. And at the same time, I think what we're lacking is we're lacking enforcement. Right? So I worked for a company for 14 years that had a stellar HR policy, but the minute I got into the van, none of that mattered. Right? And I knew very well, I could never complain about anything. So if there's no enforcement, then you might as well burn those pieces of paper up, right?

Lisa Laronde (28:18.103)
I know.

Lisa Laronde (28:28.247)
Yeah, and I agree. I think we've been through a similar one where you have to do the investigation and then everybody gets interviewed and then they decide we can't make a decision because it's a he said, she said, and so we're not gonna do anything. And that's the really sad part in all of this and that's what has to change. And what we tried, and I'm gonna go back to it's education. And I'm saying the man doesn't have to be fired. You just have to say this behavior's inappropriate. We don't tolerate it anymore. Now you've been told that this is how your words have been interpreted or this is how your actions have been interpreted.

interpreted and you also don't know, you know, what people, what their other, or just people in general, what their personal trauma is. And you don't know what, you know, when you're a 20 something year old girl and you're a 50 some old man or year old man and you put your arm around somebody or slap their ass, it's like, you know, you got to think of how, how that woman's taking it, who, you know, you're old enough to be your father. It's just, it's, but I do think it's talking to people because I, my,

my gut for the most people is that's not their intent, that's not how they want to start their day. So I think that as long as we can continue to educate, I think we'll start to change it. I just wanted to give you an opportunity to talk about your business. I know you started at the very beginning, but I just wanted to give you an opportunity to talk about your Fair Trades Toolbox.

Brandi Ferenc (29:42.578)
Yeah, so I mean, we've kind of recapped it. Fairtrades Toolbox has just come about organically from my experience in the field. So I'm bringing that 20 years of experience together as a consultant, as an educator. I've been teaching the trades now for almost a decade. So you know what, I feel like I've got this really good rapport to be able to navigate this industry and speak to employers to help them build their businesses, right? And in this time when we're looking for labor.

Even as an educator, my language has had to change. And that's the thing, when we talk about, you mentioned language, with Fair Trades Toolbox, I really want to just make the skilled trades that much better by making it a viable career path for women, and I have to try, because otherwise I feel like I'm doing my gender a disservice, I can't talk about how amazing the trades are without saying, but there is this one caveat, right?

And I do believe another thing, when we talk about education, it just comes down to that professional respect. What if we just as a baseline just said, let's just treat each other as professionals, right? You don't have to like me. You don't have to like the look of me. We don't have to have Sunday dinner together. But in other professional environments, individuals work together every day without having this type of harassment, and they do it very successfully. And we just need to integrate that into the skilled trades. Right? I feel like the blue collar is becoming the new white collar.

Lisa Laronde (30:53.207)
Yeah. Yep.

Lisa Laronde (31:10.135)
It is, I agree. I agree.

Brandi Ferenc (31:10.21)
given the climate and as such, let's treat each other as professionals, right? So I'm really, Fairtrades Toolbox is really here to help the industry as a whole, but to be there as that third party for employers that just wanna do the business and I'll come in and do the other dirty work, let's say.

Lisa Laronde (31:29.775)
That's awesome. And if you could, what advice would you give your younger self?

Brandi Ferenc (31:34.362)
Oh man. My younger self, that's a loaded question, Lisa. Honestly, I would probably tell my younger self, just keep doing what you're doing. I mean, if I could do it all over again, I think I would have still gotten into this industry. I'm stubborn by nature. I was raised by two very forceful women. And that's the other part. I think sometimes we have to be those women that says, well, if not me, who? Who's going to do it?

Lisa Laronde (31:41.742)
Hahaha

Brandi Ferenc (32:03.974)
So for my younger self, I just say, yeah, just keep your head down and keep going. The only thing I would change is I would never have tried to be one of the guys. That's a mistake I think I made, and I learned from that, right? I was never going to be one of the guys, and trying to be one of the guys, I think, almost made it worse in some ways.

Lisa Laronde (32:23.543)
And you know what, I think we all make that mistake. I did exactly the same thing, so I would agree with you. So Brandy, your journey has sparked conversations around gender, equity, and inclusivity. It ignited change, it serves as a reminder of the strength and the resilience needed to advocate for change. Thank you for all that you're doing, and thank you for joining us in the Powerhouse Project. Thanks, Brandy, you're awesome. I just love you. I love what you've been doing for the industry, so keep it up.

Brandi Ferenc (32:42.55)
Thank you so much.

Brandi Ferenc (32:48.567)
Thank you.