Lauren Fahey: Transforming the NexGen in Construction

0:03  
Lisa, welcome to the powerhouse project, a podcast that celebrates exceptional women who are making their mark across various industries. I'm your host, Lisa larond, and I'm delighted to introduce our next guest, Lauren Fauci. Lauren is executive director of next gen construction and a passionate advocate for diversity, equity equity and inclusion, with a mission to boost women's participation in the construction industry. She's breaking down barriers and creating opportunities for future generations. Welcome to the show, Lauren,

0:30  
thank you so much for having me. Lisa, did

0:33  
you want to start and just tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got involved in the industry?

0:37  
Yeah, sure. So I am. I am, I started working for a peak body of women in construction around about six years ago, and before that, I was involved in a lot of behavior change programs with large clients here in Australia. And so behavior change has really been a very strong passion of mine, and it's something that I live for. It is what I live for, and it's my why, I guess. And when I started working with the peak body, I fell in love with the industry, I fell in love with the stories, and I also wanted to fix the problems. You know, I want to be part of that solution. And then when I was approached to become the executive director for next gen. I couldn't let it go, because it was a passion of both worlds. It was construction and and behavior change, as well as education, which is part of my passions. That's how I'm now in my role. But I kind of fell into the industry. I guess I fell into around the industry a lot, like a lot of other people that come into construction, we kind of just fall into it. And I think for me, you know, falling into the industry and then falling in love with the possibilities of the industry for young women and young men, but mostly women, and what this industry has to offer. That's, yeah, that's a little bit about my story.

2:02  
That's very cool. I was noticing some of your LinkedIn posts, and I think, you know, it hit home, the one about the two of them that were going for apprentice and they had to do the cleaning. So first of all, how does that happen? Remember, in 2024 I can't imagine. You know, it's shocking to me that we're still dealing with this, but I think it's important that we actually talk about

2:20  
it. Yeah, look, it's it was a shocking story. When I found out that that had happened, I was just livid. And I thought to myself, How does this happen in 2024 and why is nobody saying anything about it, or why aren't we doing anything about it? And why is the double standard still existing. I mean, you know, these women are going out for an apprenticeship, and in Australia, we have a six month probation period. So the six month probation period is when you are able to tell if that person is suitable for your business, and it's the same for the person if they feel like it's a good fit. What was most intriguing to me was these women had to participate in three months of just, not even labor, just cleaning, general cleaning duties, nothing to do with the workshop, but on, you know, in the office. And yet, the boys who were coming in as apprentices were taking up the apprenticeship straight away, without having to go through that three month kind of trial basis, which it's not really even a trial, because it's completely different skill sets. One's cleaning an office and one's, you know, using tools and becoming a carpenter, like it's two different things. And I just felt there was so much injustice with that, that when I posted it, I had a little bit of rage inside of me. I guess it shows how many other people were enraged by it as well. And I think it's just, we all know that this is not on and it shouldn't be happening. Yet. Nothing is really happening about it. Nothing's changing. And that's where you know, if I can be the voice and just showcase it, you know, then that's great. But it's about that next step. What are we doing about this? How is this? You know, how are we going to stop this? Because it's really important that it doesn't exist anymore. And so

4:09  
what are some of your ideas to be able to stop it, or to change it, or at least to continue to draw attention to it?

4:15  
I think so. This was a story that was handed to me by some people that had seen it happening, and I think first of all, they were migrant women. So in Australia, migrant women and men are finding it extremely difficult to get into jobs, into any kind of jobs, especially we have some migrant women and men who have some really great qualifications from overseas, yet in Australia, they're not recognized. So we have engineers, yeah, and they're driving Ubers, yeah? And it's really baffling, because we're in a we're in a crisis of, you know, labor shortages, and we need all these people, yet we have skilled workers that are out driving Uber Yeah. So I think, for me, the. Very first step is around, let's call out this behavior, because, first of all, it's not okay, yeah. But secondly, it's about, how do we educate these, these smaller companies, so the bigger tier ones in Australia are doing quite a lot to engage women. You know, they have a lot of policies, they have a lot of procedures. And I think it comes because they are so well off. However, with the littler, you know, the small business, you know the SMEs, those tier three, four builders and just the subcontractors, there's really nothing for them. There's no way for them to really entice women to enter the industry. And they also don't have that education piece around why it's important to engage women in the correct ways. So I think the education is the first thing. And you know, Nelson Mandela says it the best, right education is the most powerful weapon that can change the world. And I truly believe that. Truly believe, with the right education, unconscious bias training and calling out what they're doing wrong and why it's wrong, that will start to, you know, create a shift. And if it doesn't, that's okay, that's how they want to be, but they are not an employer for women, and we will not be sending women down to those people. And I think that's where we have to start actually acting upon as organizations and different companies, only working with companies that are true about diversity and are going to respect women. And I think sometimes, you know, we let it slide because it's just easier to let it slide, or we're not really taking action seriously. We talk about them, but we're not taking action seriously. So for me, knowing that this company did that no longer on the good books. You know, unless they go through the education and change, no women will be recommended there.

6:48  
Now, do you have a like, a list of companies that have either completed the training or that you feel are open to employing women? Yeah,

6:57  
so look, there's a lot of big companies, especially the tier ones that have invested a lot of money on women in construction, they've invested a lot of money for diversity and inclusion training. So there is a lot of these companies. I think that's all well and good, because they are big companies, and we can see what they're doing. The problem that I feel with where this industry, especially in Australia, where I think it lacks is those bigger companies are doing a lot of things, but then they're having their subcontractors who don't have those things in place. And it really is about these big companies helping these subcontractors and littler businesses to follow along suit. And what does that look like? How do we help them? That's the most important thing. So for me, you know, there's always horror stories in all companies. I don't think every company is squeaky clean, but it's about, you know, let's really get serious about even the big tier ones. Get serious. Look at your subcontractors, bring them along on that journey because, and then it is fit for site. It is fit to work on. I

8:06  
know in Ontario, one of the things we talked about is there's been no human rights complaints for women in construction. And one of the things they find is they don't get they everything gets settled out of court. So you actually don't know if there's, you know, and and rightfully so. I don't think everything needs to go to court, but we're saying now you can have the same employer that consistently is settling out of court. And so you wouldn't know, as a as a woman, you know, trying to find a job in construction, you could actually be applying to the company. So it'd be nice if we could. I mean, I don't know if whether that's reasonable or not, but to have a roster to say, here are the people that you know have actually settled out of court. I think it's, it's, it's nice to be able to know so that you know, as a woman that's getting into the industry, that you would know this is a company I want to work with, or I don't want to work with, and agree with you. I mean, if you don't want to work with women, that's okay, but we should actually let women know. Yeah,

8:59  
and in Australia, we do have a company called the we call it w, which is Workplace Gender Equity agency, and what they have developed is a tool. It's not just for construction. It is for most of the businesses in Australia that employ over, I believe it's over 100 people, and those companies must report into widia, and when they report in, they get an accreditation. I guess it's very similar to an accreditation. So women can actually go on, and men can go on and see what they're doing, what the policies are, and they tick boxes within this framework. So that has been working really well. They actually pushed recently for the gender pay gap in construction, which is the highest in all industries in Australia, which is horrible. It's actually gone backwards, and we haven't actually moved an inch forward. So that's really concerning. But what you can do as a woman, as a female, entering the. Street or moving between companies, is you can actually go on to the website and look at that company and say, Okay, this company has X amount of women. Gender pay gap is this? These are the policies. So I think there's that. But again, it's this wider conversation around what's accessible for women. Do they know about this? And it's also really understanding the gender pay gap, because it's, it's not like for like roles. A lot of the time it comes down to, you know, a lot more men in Australia are hired in construction, as it is around the world, and so they usually fall into those higher paid roles. And that's a lot of the time where the gender discrepancy comes in as well. So like for like, roles are paid very similar. In Australia, for example, in our apprenticeships, they have to pay them the same rate. But what we're finding is a lot of women don't get into those senior positions, and there's no pathways for them in the lot of the companies. And I have a real problem with that, because I think hiring women to tick a box is not helping anybody, especially if you're going to hire a woman and let her sink or swim, and really, that's not okay. If you're going to hire a woman for a tick box, then she needs to be supported to succeed, and if you don't have the right skill set, then that's okay. How do you get women to have that right skill set in your business and and future proof your business. And I think so, whilst we don't have something that shows every business in Australia, every company we do have Bucha, which are pushing and moving that dial to make people better. And

11:37  
I think you know when you hire women, particularly in the trades, when they're the only one on the crew, or only one, you know, on the job, that's where it also becomes very, very difficult, because you don't have, you know, a support network, or sometimes we find that, particularly in the unions, that they would move women around. So you have, you know, a handful of women, but they're never on the same cruise together. And so that becomes very, very difficult to be able to navigate. I go, it's got to be difficult when you start a job and you know already you, you know you don't look like everybody else in your crew, it's difficult to navigate. So how do you think that we start to change to get more representation for women in the industry? Are your percentages? Similar to Canada, we have like, 5% of women in the skilled trades.

12:17  
We have 3% just over 3% in the trades. We have 13% of women across Australia in construction, which is including the trades. So we're actually lower than than Canada, which is very telling. It's very telling. You know, when we have stories, and I can talk to you about horror stories all day long, but when you hear stories of, you know, female apprentices standing on a ladder, you know, doing their job, and they get, you know, somebody walks past and bites them on the calf muscle and says, Oh, gee, your calf looks lovely. I just needed to take a bite. And then that woman just leaves the industry, yeah, you understand why. You understand why, and you think to yourself, how is this acceptable? And why are we doing this? So I think to get more women into the industry, first of all, I It's so I'm so conflicted every day of my life. The reason I'm conflicted is because I get to go out and encourage students, female students, to come into the industry next gen. That's what it is. It's a not for profit. We go out and we see school students from you know, all over New South Wales, predominantly at the moment, but we will look to expand into different states. And last financial year, we saw over 6000 girls, you know, female students, and we talked to them about construction. After seeing our program, we had a 7% increase of females that wanted to join the industry, or at least were considering it, which was 7% more than what was previous to us going out. So that is a really big game changer, even though the percentages seem so small, yep. So I think that's a really positive thing, how we can get women in, especially the young ages. The problem that we have is then keeping them and that retention piece is a very big issue. And I think everybody needs to pull their weight. And this is not just men, it's also women. We all need to band together to make sure that women and men are both safe in these in these roles, you know? And that's why I get conflicted a lot of the time, because we go out and we engage and we inspire these students to come into construction, and when they get into construction, it's very different to what they think it is. And so that perception of construction is what we're trying to break down, but it's very hard to break down that perception when it is, you know, when people come into the industry and it's nothing like what we're trying to, you know, portray that it is because, you know, I know so many women in construction that love their job, never had any issues with their job. They've had successful careers. So it is a really good option. For young women. So I think there's a lot to do with education again. So it comes down to for us educating not just the students that both the females and males to we like educating the young boys, because we want them to understand there will be women in construction and that they need to be allies for these women, agree, that's a really big part of our change. The other piece that we're trying to do is really speak to parents and teachers about the industry, because these the parents are the most influential people on a student's life, and your mom or dad says, No, you're not going into construction. I want you to do this. A lot of the times, students will listen, and again, in the media, in Australia, construction is perceived as a really bad industry. You know, we have liquidations, we have all of these problems, gender pay gap, and so it's already giving us a damaging name and a damaging industry. So for us to then change that culture, we have to start with the parents and the teachers as well, and hopefully we can get more people in. So I think if everyone does their part to talk about how good construction can be and the viable career options, maybe we can get those younger women coming through, and also women from different industries. But we have to make a conscious effort to change construction, we have to be more flexible. We have to offer job sharing roles, which is something that not many companies are doing. And I know it's difficult for the littler companies to do this. It's a lot of money. But if we're not starting to invest in these changes, only the industry is going to suffer. We're in Australia. We're currently dealing with an aging population in construction. Where are we getting these people to fulfill what they have to fulfill in Australia in the next couple of years? Unless everybody starts to change what they're doing internally,

16:54  
nothing will shift. And I think, you know, we're facing the same thing they're saying in 2030 we're going to be short, you know, 86,000 workers, because just through retirement and attrition and and that we don't have young people coming into the industry. And again, construction is about building. This is your infrastructure. You know, everything, basically you touch, to some degree, you know, involves construction. So, and I agree, and we've done this also concentrated effort, because what they find now is you have to start in the primary schools to reach children and agree with you. It's about the parents. And we really have to change this narrative. And I believe that we're changing the narrative, and then we run into this roadblock, which is what you're talking about, is retention. So how do you retain them? You promote the industry, and then they get into the industry, and they're like, this is not what I signed up for. I mean, this is like, it's old and archaic and and these behaviors are just tolerated. And when we talk about is that it's interesting, because I've only been in the industry for nine years, and I have seen some change. So, I mean, there's obviously really good things that are happening, but I still believe, just listening to some of your or reading some of your posts, is we still have to bring attention to it. In 2024 we're still experiencing this. And I was saying, you know what happens is, as part of our organization, everybody goes through equity 101, training. Because one of the things that we found was we really need these allies, and we need other people to speak up to say, hey, that let behavior is not tolerated, and it's like you want to get people fired. It's just, we're just so used to talking this way, treating people this way, that we actually accept it as normal behavior. And the person that's biting the ankle, it's like, well, I didn't mean anything, but it's not sexual. Like, it's like, I'm like, okay, like, at some point come on. Like, let's have a conversation. You think that that's okay? Well, you can bite my ankle. Okay, that's not what we're talking about. This is about, you know, put yourself in other people's shoes. And I had one young carpenter who's indigenous, and she was the only woman on her crew. When she would come in, they her supervisors, put his arm around her, rub her back, say, Hey baby, how's everything going? And she actually said to him, this makes me feel really, really uncomfortable. And it kept happening. It kept happening. And she actually escalated. And I thought did a really good job of escalating. But what ended up happening was, the usual story that you hear is, they do the investigation, you know, they've, they've decided that the guy was just joking. So really, you know, there's not a big deal to happen, yeah? So, you know, yeah. So seriously, and then she started to not get the work. She, you know, got laid off, didn't get

19:18  
some reason. It becomes her issue,

19:22  
it's so bizarre to me, and I go, Okay, now what have you learned from all that? Well, don't say anything, otherwise you lose your job, and if you're the breadwinner, what do you do?

19:30  
Yeah, absolutely. And this happens all the time, and this is why a lot of the sexual harassment reports will not ever come to light, because it's that fear of losing their job, the fear of saying anything. I heard of a very similar story where a woman was on site and he came over and he he grabbed her around the waist and was just holding her while there was, you know, a bunch of people looking you know. On plans, whatever they were doing, and she was clearly very awkward, and she didn't say anything, but she was very awkward in this situation. And once everybody kind of left, and he also left, a lot of people came over to her and said, Are you okay? You looked like you were really uncomfortable. I'm sorry that happened. Now that's great that they went up to her and checked on her, but what did we do with that man? Did anybody actually stop and go, Hey, mate, drop your hand off her. She looks uncomfortable. Or, you know, did anyone go up to him after and say, you know, I think she didn't really like that or appreciate that. Maybe don't do that next time nobody talks to him, he's the he's the reason that happened. So whilst it was great that they're checking on this woman, what are we doing about him? You know? Oh yeah, she feels uncomfortable. I'm going to check on her. This guy's going to do it again and again. Also,

20:57  
nobody has said anything either, and I'm not condoning the behavior, but I think that's where we have to get to, is to say, hey, this isn't tolerated. It's like bullying. You may not be the bully, and you may not be the victim the bully, but if you're witnessing it, you're a

21:09  
bystander to the effect. And this is the problem that we all have, and it's something that I want to instill in Australia, is an unconscious bias training that actually it's something that will shake you to your core, not something that you do. Because a lot of people will say, Oh, I wouldn't let that happen, or I wouldn't let that behavior happen if I saw it, but actually a lot of people would, and they wouldn't even know it, which is why, you know, it was so interesting when I posted that, that people were, you know, connecting with it and thanking me for posting something like that. And I thought, What are we missing if I'm posting this and I didn't even witness this. It was a story that was handed to me. How many other things are people not talking about or saying, and when we are on site or around that behavior, how many times do we tolerate it? And, you know, the other day I witnessed, and this is not about construction, but I witnessed my daughter playing soccer, and she was trialing out for the development team. Not one girl showed up. So not one girl was interested, so they had to put her in the mixed comp, which was fine. We got there, not one other girl was there. So she was already feeling really hesitant to play, because it was 30 boys and her, and so she already had that feeling of, I don't belong. But I was so proud of her. She went out on that field and she really gave it her all the difference. And what outraged me was that the fact that none of these boys passed the ball to her, there was not one throw in, not one kick, not one pass, nothing to her, because she's a girl. And the other part that bothered me, it was all Okay, boys, come over here, come here. Boys, you know, there's a girl on the team. And whilst that doesn't seem like a big issue, it actually has so many negative effects on a young girl, because I just have to be a boy, I guess, or, you know, that's acceptable. And so we start at this young age where we start with segregating the girls and the boys, and start thinking about, you know, the different gender roles that students have. And I was so outrage, and I posted that as well, and that also took off in it. It was quite interesting, because I think, well, who was calling it out? Where is the change happening? If we're all happy to stand by? And there were so many people that said, Oh, this happened to me. This happened to my son, my daughter. You know, because it happens in both genders. It's not just one, but females tend to be targeted more, I guess. I think it's just the hierarchy of things and how we are, and then, you know, the intersectionalities of women, migrant women, it just gets worse and worse down the chain. And I think you know, what are we doing? And I love that you said we need to speak to primary because the other day, actually, on Wednesday, I was in a primary school. And I saw nearly 200 primary school students over seven classes, and they were kindy in year one. And I had a photo of all different people in construction, all wearing different things. And I asked them, Who is the boss of this project? And there was, in the middle of the photo, there was a man wearing a suit. There was also a female wearing a suit, and others were casually dressed, or some in their high vis. And all seven classes, I saw them at different points of the day. All said he's the boss. That means the boss, all of them without a fail. And then we dived into why? Because he's wearing a tie and a suit. Okay, that's interesting. And then I broke it down again. Well, actually, he's the architect, and you can see he's holding blueprint. And then I said, but actually the boss of this job is this lady, and they'll no way. And I said, like a lot of the young boys were like, she can't be the boss. Us, she's a girl, and that, you know, this is five, six year olds we're talking about. And so breaking down that bias was it was so good to see because, you know, it starts so quickly, so young, yeah. And when, you know, there was mixed responses, which I was really excited to see because when I said, What does someone look like in construction? And I put up a, you know, a male with a beard and he had, you know, construction, you know, a hard hat and a high vis vest on. And they said, Yeah, that's what a construction worker looks like. And some of the kids said, except without the beard. And I said, Okay. But then I put up a photo of a girl. They are female, wearing the same and I said, is she a construction worker? And about 50% of the students would say yes, and 50 would say no. So even that's changing, which is great, because we have 50% at least saying yes, she can be a construction worker too, but the boss was always the man that's coming. It was so telling. And even the teachers, you know, they were all actually female the teachers, because a lot of the teachers in primary schools tend to be female, especially in that young age. And they weren't actually shocked at all. They knew that that would probably be the case. So it was a really good learning curve for the kids, and we were actually able to break down that stereotype and really talk to them about what it looks like, what construction can look like, and anybody can do it. And we were able to read some beautiful books that are about women in construction and how girls are building and changing the world. So, you know, it is true that education is so it has to start at the beginning, and it has to start in all homes, in all schools. We really just need to stop that conversation around, you know, this is what boys do. This is what girls do. And you know, in that soccer instance, it's about teaching your boys to pass to everyone. It's a team sport. Doesn't matter if he's a girl or a boy. To get the goal, we have to be a team. And so it's about breaking that down. And really, as parents, we have a duty of care to do that. So I make it a point to take my daughters to see female doctors rather than male doctors, and then to two of my daughters, their primary school teachers are male. And so breaking down the stereotypes of Yes, men can be teachers of young students and yes, women can be doctors. They're not just thinking that, okay, only nurses are girls and doctors are boys. And you know, so it's, it's trying to balance that out for them in everything that we do. And I think as parents, we have

27:46  
to do that. I agree, and I do believe, you know, the next generation that's coming up is much more open to inclusion and equity. And I'll talk specifically about Ontario that, you know, we've really done, I think a pretty good job of the education part of it, and I know that now in our primary grades, it's part of the curriculum here. And then I did laugh about it, because they put it as part of the curriculum, but then they didn't give the teachers any resources to say, how do we actually roll this out, to actually teach the kids what it is like to be working in the trades to some degree or another? And I think it would be nice if we could get education and our unions together in industry and government to say, you know, we've, we've identified that this is an issue, and it's a global issue. So how important do you think it is for women to have allies?

28:28  
I think it's, I think it's very important. And I think our allies need to be not only males. I think females need to be more allies as well to other females. There is a lot of that behavior as well in construction, and I'm not afraid to call that out where, you know, also, women aren't supporting women where they could be, and that needs to be something that's also addressed, because it's not, it's not a female problem. We're not here to fix the females, like we say. But yet, you know, I go and sit in different rooms and it's all women in construction, and most people we're sitting in that room are women. So it's not all female. We're not here to fix women, but yet, we're preaching to women about how we going to fix the problem. So I think it's it. It's mind boggling. Lisa, I sit in these meetings, and I look around the room and I'm like, There's 80% of women in this room, 20% of men. And we're preaching and preaching about how we need to change the industry. You're preaching to women. We know, we know, yeah, we need to start preaching to people who can influence change. And those are those small and medium businesses, yeah, that are, you know, they are in Australia. 97% make up small medium enterprises. Here they are, where the big tickets are. You know, that's where the change is going to come from. The tier ones have enough of that money to implement a lot of change with money. These little guys don't have that. We need to influence those changes. So people from those industry so those companies need to be in those rooms. That's who needs to be in the room. It's not these women who are sitting in, you know, good roles in construction. It's these people in those little construction industries that make it difficult for women. Yeah. So male allies, for me, is really important. Some of the women that I know that have had senior roles in construction, they always talk about their spot. They call them a sponsor, rather than their male ally. And I think it's really powerful, because their sponsors are actually taking them with them through their journeys, and they're the ones who are saying their names in the room when they're not in the room. You know, they're talking about these women, they're putting them forward for promotion, and that, to me, that's what we need. So the allies are really important, but the sponsorship of men, taking the women through is also really important, you know, because anyone can say, Yes, I'm a male ally for women. But what are they actually doing? If you're taking women through and helping them grow through their career, and you're giving them the opportunities that sponsorship, you're actually changing how that woman is going to be perceived in the industry, how she feels about the industry. And I think you know, if you're a woman that's also in power, I think it's the same duty that you owe to other women that are coming down. And I think this mentality of, and I've heard this from women saying I had to go through it. So I know, you know they have to do it's just, it builds your confidence. No, it shouldn't. No, it actually shouldn't, and that's why we need to change it. Yeah, I'm sorry that you went through that, and I understand you went through that, but that doesn't mean that others should go through that, because that's a horrible thing to go through.

31:51  
Oh, I agree, and I think it's so, so important to have that sponsorship. I think that is the key for us to be successful. There's nothing better than to walk into a room with a sponsor that's introducing you. This is, you know, I'd like to introduce you Lisa. This is what she does. She's president, stand and talk. I said, there's nothing worse than walking into a room and nobody will talk to you, similar to your daughter. No one's going to pass to you at some point. You know, you can be strong, but it gets exhausting after a while that nobody wants to actually acknowledge that you're, you're a person,

32:19  
yeah, yeah. And it's, it's so interesting because it's in everything. You know, I've seen senior women who are running meetings, who also take the minutes. There's a lot of men in the room. Yeah, these are the things we need to change. I challenge them to say, what are you actually doing? Instead of putting your hand up saying, I did the male allies training, or I've done DNI training, that's all well and good. What are you practicing? Are you saying that person's name in a meeting when she's not there? Are you looking at that pathway? You know, she might not have the skill yet, but you can see the potential. What's the pathway for her to get there? Yeah, make the actual changes. Let's change it. Otherwise we're stuck in this cycle. I mean, Australia has been 13% of women for 30 years. Nothing's changing. Yeah? People are like, Oh, it's it's not changing, because the data is showing us it's not changing. Yeah. You know, we might be getting more women in than ever before they're leaving just as quick. So what are we doing? We're all talking about the same thing, but nothing's changing. It's time to change it. It's time to actually put our money where our mouth is and call out bad behavior, implement good policies and make sure your staff are involved in those policies so they take them up. Yep. And let's make pathways for women so they can get to those, those higher roles, and we can start to have that gender pay parity make it safe for everyone. I don't know about in Canada, but in Australia, the suicide rate in construction is one construction worker dies every second day. 98% of those are men. We have a problem. Yes, it's not a women's problem. We have a problem, and we need to fix this for everybody.

34:04  
We usually end our podcast with the question is, if you could give your younger self some advice, what piece of advice would that be?

34:11  
That's a really great question. I think for me, it would be, be the confident woman I am from the beginning, because I was never as confident I was a bystander to a lot of effects, and I think that's the one thing I would say, is stop being a bystander and start putting action into practice.

34:29  
I hope you continue to do what you've been doing. You're inspiring women, young

34:34  
you Lisa, you're amazing. I love following your career. Oh,

34:37  
thank you so so much. I really appreciate it My pleasure, my pleasure. You can learn more about today's guests in the show notes and at the powerhouse project.com and if you know a woman in leadership or in the skilled trades, please send in a voicemail or a message on the website. Follow and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

34:54  
You.

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