Melissa Alexander: Second Chances

Lisa Laronde  0:03  
Hi, I'm Lisa round, the first woman president at RCA International and the host of this new podcast called the powerhouse project. Today, I'm excited to welcome Melissa Alexander, a floor covering apprentice who has appeared worker, a mentor, and an activist. Thank you so much for joining us today, Melissa. Yeah,

Melissa Alexander  0:21  
you're welcome, Lisa, it's been a while.

Lisa Laronde  0:26  
I actually was just thinking about the first time we met, which was that honor, they work and we were talking to primary school teachers. And I remember saying, I gotta make sure I control my swearing. And I was like, Oh, don't worry about it go, I was probably more intimidated by talking to primary school teachers than I have been about talking with other CEOs. But I have to say, Melissa, I was actually very, very inspired by your story. You've impressed me and now we've connected on LinkedIn. And I love following your journey. So I'd like to start with what actually inspired you to get involved in in the skilled trades.

Melissa Alexander  0:56  
And so my father is a mechanic. And for some reason, he knew that skilled trades was going to be needed in the future. And so he always told me to, you know, get into the trades. And I was just like, but I like it as a hobby. I never thought of like, taking it as a career before. Me being a floor layer. I almost got into culinary actually. Yeah. And then I realized that I like cooking. But I don't want to, you know, being a chef as a career. So basically, is just my dad. And I just like doing things with my hands. And so now your fourth year apprentice Correct. going into my fifth year by August,

Lisa Laronde  1:47  
what's been your experience or some of your challenges, experienced it

Melissa Alexander  1:51  
as a floor layer is actually pretty cool. One thing I didn't thought it was part of floor Lee was doing game lines. And so my first ever game lining was back in 2020. I think it's 2020 or 21. At University of Ottawa, we did their whole floors, from stripping to putting new feel to adding the game lines. So I didn't know how it looked like before, but it looks good. But

Lisa Laronde  2:23  
make sure you do that. Right. Exactly.

Melissa Alexander  2:25  
But to be fair, because I was a first year back then. I didn't do much. The only thing they allowed me to do was the detail painting. Because I love painting. So they allowed me to do the stencils, the little stencils. Yeah, that was pretty cool.

Lisa Laronde  2:42  
That's really neat. I wouldn't have guessed that. That was part of the job.

Melissa Alexander  2:46  
Not me, either. I was just like, oh, so I took pictures. And I actually put it up on my Instagram and one of my friends, she knew me as a ballplayer in high school. She's like, Who would have thought you doing doing these guidelines and you know, you as a ballplayer? That's pretty cool. Nice. Like, right?

Lisa Laronde  3:03  
Yeah, comes around full circle.

Melissa Alexander  3:05  
Exactly.

Lisa Laronde  3:06  
So how did you become involved as a certified peer worker, or like, What motivated you to get involved?

Melissa Alexander  3:12  
Building up was my foundation. So I was a trainee, five, six years ago, and I had a case manager at the time, she knew that I was an activist, she knew that I wanted to help the community. And she saw an opportunity for me to join this organization called the community healing project, which is under the City of Toronto. And because it's a youth base, she was like, well, you can always try it. And I'm like, Well, I'm all for you. So I don't know if I could make it. Sure enough, I did the interview, and they took me and from then I did the six months training, plus three, three months of doing workshops at my neighborhood that I grew up, and then ever since I've been with them ever since. And so where did you grew up? I grew up in St. James Town, which is by sherbert and Wellesley downtown. As

Lisa Laronde  4:05  
a pure worker, do you just motivate or work with youth?

Melissa Alexander  4:08  
I motivate works, do workshops, or any underprivileged neighborhoods as going through a crisis like say somebody got shot or a suicide happen. They will call the community peers. And then they will ask anybody who's available to support that neighborhood. And so sometimes I will take it sometimes I can't because of work. Yep. So I'm like, a bit of like a workshop like doing facilitation, but also a support system around the areas that needed peer support workers.

Lisa Laronde  4:43  
I think that's awesome. Can you tell us a little bit about Stella's place?

Melissa Alexander  4:46  
I think stellar place was the main organization that created the training, and they paired up with George Brown College. So our training was at George Brown College almost at Every Saturday until we finish that six months, and then we get to go for a placement. And

Lisa Laronde  5:07  
how did you actually get involved in that? Is it because it's YOU the neighborhood that you grew up in? Or did you? How did you find these kinds of places that you wanted to volunteer with? It's

Melissa Alexander  5:16  
really an opportunity. So if it like people knew what I want to do, so they're like, Listen, how about this? I'm like, yeah, we'll try. And then sure enough, when I find out what they do, it's more like, you know what, I don't mind volunteering. I don't mind helping out some way somehow, especially for the youth.

Lisa Laronde  5:34  
Yeah, I agree with you. Because I do think that that's, that's our future. Now. And, and I think it's just so important that we, we, you know, we tell our stories, and we engage the youth and we particularly we engage women to be able to get into the trades, because I think it's vitally important that we represent. So you have done some advocacy work supporting the walls to bridges, can you just tell us a little bit about the organization. So lots

Melissa Alexander  5:57  
of bridges is actually a program that's offered inside the prisons, for anybody that wants to get into social justice. Anybody from inside that wants to apply, they have to write like a letter stating why they feel they want to get into the program. Once you get chosen, the main teacher who is already been trained to teach inside, they pick the 11 women inside and then 11 students from Surrey for Laurier. And then they come together. So instead of the women going to the university, the students come to the jail. Wow. And it's basically to break the stigma. Right? And then on top of that, what we're studying, so it could be social work. It could be sociology, it could be philosophy. I think it was a pilot back in 2000 2011, I believe it is 2011, they have this one big project as a group. And what they wanted is, okay, well, the programs and we don't want to stop. So we built a collective from inside. And it got bigger and bigger. And in some of the women who were inside, were already released. And so the ones who got out created an outside collector. Wow. So right now, it's like pretty much across Canada, over 10 years. That's amazing. And I've been with them for almost nine, almost 10 years. Yeah.

Lisa Laronde  7:27  
How did you actually get involved in that particular program? Or How do other people get involved in a program like that.

Melissa Alexander  7:32  
So anybody that wants to get into the program, you have to find out if your university actually has that program. And so you apply, we're as women from inside, when they do get the poster that says, oh, there's a new, a new course, then you just write a letter, how I got involved is because I was in prison, I was there from 2011 to 2017, I was kind of worried and somewhat shy to join, because I never thought I was I had enough academia to do University. And I had a lady that actually pushed me. So I applied three times. And when I finally got into the first, I ended up doing for more after that. And then in between the four courses I've done, that's when I actually wanted to be part of the movement, I believe in second chances. And I also believe that education is the key that actually helps women men inside build their confidence. And maybe when they get out, hey, they could actually go back to school, we

Lisa Laronde  8:38  
see eye to eye on that. I believe that education is the key for a lot of things. And we just need to educate people, we need to tell our stories and talk about it. So you know, you're not afraid of working, you know, particularly with a woman or somebody who's doesn't look like you or or maybe somebody that has been in prison. I agree. We all need second chances. And the only way we can do that is to continue to offer programs like you've been involved in. Is that how you started to get involved in the trades?

Melissa Alexander  9:02  
I studied horticulture. So I actually did landscaping for about a year and a half. When I came out and I found building up building up is a nonprofit organization that helps people with barriers, right to go into trade. So my mindset was, oh, they could help me to get into landscape. But during that time, they were still new. And they didn't have anything for landscaping. So I was like, Okay, what's my second love carpentry. And so, so I did some of their sights for about a year and a half. And then I finally got into look at 27 My first apprenticeship in there was actually general carpentry, but then when I found out that the half like you have to do a pre apprenticeship I'm like, Okay, well, I did my pre apprenticeship with these with building up. I need something that's it's straightforward to my apprenticeship. And that's how I chose flooring.

Lisa Laronde  9:52  
It's great that you had that opportunity. So do you have any like memorable stories that you can share when you're working either like within the community or as Peer Mentor,

Melissa Alexander  10:02  
oh my gosh, I have so much. I will say TC, bn. It's called TC bn, which is Toronto community benefits network. They have a program a mentorship program. And actually, one of my mentors was the Outreach Coordinator for building up and he moved to TC bn. And while he was coordinating the mentorship program, I He texted me, he's like, I want you to apply and I'm like, but I'm not ready. But I didn't realize that I was so good at it. And it's just because I love seeing people strive. Like, I love the fact that if somebody's coming from a dark place, and they just want a chance, I use like my a little bit of my experience, but also okay, what trade you want to get into, and then I start researching. And so from there, it was like, Okay, I think I could actually do this. And so my profound achievement, I will say is, I was on parole, and building up got the opportunity to go inside a prison for their career fair. And as a parolee, you cannot go back in until you finish your time. And because I was sort of building up, I was able to go, I think I was the first I was told that was the first ever as a parolee and I kind of broke that stigma, because, again, like somebody who went to the system came back out, and did all these wonderful things got into the trade, trying to promote these, these organizations, to anybody that's looking for either trades or social work, or whatever, I kind of just give them the resources to check it out. And yeah, that was my biggest achievement, to be honest, is to go back in there and see the women I did time with and like, literally tell them, hey, if tres is what you guys want to do build up this here, just go for it. But also,

Lisa Laronde  11:59  
you have to be a role model, just say look at you know, now I'm on the outside and look at what I've accomplished, and the program actually is successful. Exactly. I think that's very cool. What advice do you have for women that are either entering the trades or that are struggling in their path in the in the trades?

Melissa Alexander  12:16  
Don't give up? I know, it's true, because there is times and I could recall this, like my first two years, I almost walked out just because of my situation. And it was hard to navigate, okay, I have to go see my appeal, you know, oh, I have to go here, I have to go here and I have to take time off. And I know bosses don't like that, especially if you're missing too much. So don't give up, take the leap. If hands on is what you want to do, do it. Don't be afraid there's so many organizations that will help and some of them are free.

Lisa Laronde  12:52  
And we talked briefly just about, you know, harassment and discrimination that happens, you know, on the worksite. And that if you're part of a union, that's getting called up for jobs, if you do complain, and sometimes you get pushed to the bottom of the list, or you get laid off or people don't want to work with you. So what do you think that we can do to, you know, change that or, or at least give women guidance or advice on how to deal with situations like that?

Melissa Alexander  13:19  
Well, because my union has a mentorship program, each new apprentice is always placed with the mentor that's been in the trade for about two years, that's the route I will go is having that mentor and just talk it talk things out before you know you rationally just jump in, cause trouble. And then there's your reps, right? This is why I always say to like, trainees that moves on to my union, I always say you guys have to come to these meetings, because your reps are there, show your face talk to them. They're not scary people, they're actually decent. And they are they want to help. So your mentor, your reps, and then even higher ups like your your Equity Diversity Inclusion director or your vice chair or your president, like if you feel that you want more guidance, you could go there too.

Lisa Laronde  14:15  
So we were talking a lot about you know, that there's only 5% of women in the skilled trades. And so one of the things that people look for is to have a sense of community or a sense of belonging, you know, we don't have this this group that women can actually get together to even to share their stories or to have access to people like yourself to just get some advice in terms of, you know, here, this is what I'm struggling with on my crew. You know, what are some of your of your suggestions or recommendations? So do you have any ideas on how we would promote how women in the skilled trades can actually form part of the community are how would they access some of those resources?

Melissa Alexander  14:50  
I'm gonna speak of my union because we have we actually have a sisterhood committee. And so my advice is to if what Ever trade you're in or whatever union you're in, if they have a women's committee like a sisterhood committee go to it. Because one big event that's out, like whatever frustration we have on site or what's not happening. That's one and then two, is actually an opportunity for us to have that open dialogue and actually present it to the higher ups and also outings, because we do outing So

Lisa Laronde  15:29  
what role do you think men can play in creating inclusive workplaces

Melissa Alexander  15:34  
Support, Support, Support support, I can say like, I love the old school men, because my dad's old school, so I know how to deal with their rants and their whatever. But um, if we could give them more support, where somebody is a built for the trades, at least help them out. You know, you don't have to, like look at their statue and be like, Okay, well, she can't do this. So we're gonna make her sweep. And, and,

Lisa Laronde  16:02  
yeah,

Melissa Alexander  16:02  
throw garbage. Yeah, like, challenge challenge us. Because you'd be surprised.

Lisa Laronde  16:08  
I think we're doing a pretty good job attracting women into the trades, we're not doing a very good job of retaining them. And it's it a lot of that's about harassment and discrimination. And I just don't think we prepare women to be able this is this is what you're going to be faced with when you get onto a crew or worksite. And then, as we talked about earlier, like, where do you go when you're faced with challenges? Or, you know, harassment or discrimination? And how, and how do you deal with all of that, and I'll go back again, that I say, you know, it's all about, you know, we need education, we need to educate people. And not only I don't know, if unions can help us do that, you know, maybe we mandate that unions have to have what it will just pull up percentages, 20% of their members have to be women, or people have an underrepresented group. And then she goes, Well, then what happens is you're ticking a box, or you know, if you mandated on job sites, and they would have one GC might have one woman, and then they rotate around, and I said, but at some point, even if you are the token woman, then we're just going to show them that we're good at what we're doing, we can do a good job, we can probably do a better job than other people. I'll take that opportunity every day, to tick a box to be the token woman on site so that I can represent and show that we actually have a place at the table. What are your thoughts on on that? For

Melissa Alexander  17:16  
me? It's more like, because I found out there's more women programs now for trades. Yeah. And so what I do is, anytime I find out, this organization has a woman all trades I'd be like, Oh, can I get your flyer? And then I start like telling everybody like, Hey, are you interested here? Check this up, check this up, check this out. There's one in George Brown, there is a skill for change, the YWCA. But how do

Lisa Laronde  17:45  
women like know to access these kinds of programs,

Melissa Alexander  17:49  
it's more like going to like job fairs or trade shows. That's where you could find a lot of the organizations, because that's how I find that a lot of these organizations, and some of them, I'm actually doing like some panels or speaking engagement, how they do with their program. It's like, okay, where else can they do hands on? Yeah, before they move on to a union or non union. So I kind of dish out the resources like that. But the best is trade shows, or job fairs, to find these

Lisa Laronde  18:21  
organizations. And we're trying to get into you know, even as you and I did the panel with the primary teachers is to get people interested early on, at least the kids you know, interested if we can actually show them this is what you can do, this is who you can be and and I think change that stigma about skilled trade workers that you can make a lot of money and you can have a really good career, you can even run your own business at the end of the day, if you choose to do that. So I agree with you. So what are your long term career aspirations? Once you get your red seal?

Melissa Alexander  18:51  
I actually because someone asked me that they're like, so when you get your recipe, what do you want to do? So I want to be a foreman. At least for a couple of years until I I can't do it no more and maybe teach still mentoring, but I actually want to be a foreman on site just because my experience with Foreman's there were 5050 and I feel like okay, well, when we're having new apprentices, and some of them would be young, do you need somebody who actually understands what they're going through and who's willing to teach that's one of my long term goals is actually to be that that journey person with three four apprentices underneath my belt and teach them as much as they can and help them with whatever they're going through because I have stories for days so it's more like it's like more likely like you know, helping them with the trade but also if they want someone to talk to or any resources that could get

Lisa Laronde  19:52  
and I think it's so important that we have women that are in in either supervisory or for people roles because then then you you know, you represent and then And this younger generation coming up can can actually see, hey, I can I can actually accomplish this. And I think as we get more women into leadership roles in either like elite hand or supervisory for person, that's where I think our education starts. And that's where I think we can start to change some of the behaviors that we've tolerated for so long, because really construction has one of the highest suicide rates, so and that that's, you know, crosses all genders. You know, I think it's partially just how we've always said, you know, you gotta suck it up and go to work and get the job done. It's, you know, nobody's taking the time to look after your personal Yeah. Do you think we have more resources or still

Melissa Alexander  20:41  
need to be more, and that the story? So my first company I worked for, we all got close, and they made me feel like a daughter to Batman, some of them actually opened up to me, and it was scary to hear how many people are some of the men actually have addictions? You just never seen that? Because all they do is work, work, work, work work. Yeah. But when they tell you it's like, so what's happening? Are you getting treatment? Are you getting supports? Now I know, my union has a mental health organization. But I still feel there's should be more. Yeah. And

Lisa Laronde  21:23  
I think we have to continue to talk about and as you said earlier, we have to change the stigma that, you know, we all struggle at some point in time. And there's there's no problem with just raising your hand saying, you know, I'm struggling today. And I need some help. Because I think the more that we share our stories, the more people understand that they're not alone in this journey. So how do you balance your roles between your commitments to work your personal life, all your advocacy, all your mentoring, and volunteering, just

Melissa Alexander  21:49  
pick and choose really, if I have time, like my weekends, I prefer to do volunteer work. Like that's where I find my happy medium workwise. I'm actually grateful that I'm with building up because I could still do my practice, but also doing the accountability and teaching at the same time. So that's a good balance, and the mentoring. I do it all the time. So if my mentees like texting me, and I'm just like, Hi, how are you? And then we just have a big discussion. And sometimes it could be something they're going through on site. Sometimes it could be personal, and I'm just open to whatever. Whatever I could help. I always tell them like, don't be afraid, you know, you can always text me, even if I'm busy always texting.

Lisa Laronde  22:32  
Yeah, yeah, I agree. So do you have like specific resources that you access throughout your apprenticeship journey that you can share with others? Or did you do it all on your own?

Melissa Alexander  22:41  
I found them on my own. It was more like, oh, Melissa, what about this? Oh, well, this, what about this? And then I'm reading and I'm like, Okay, let me check it out. So when and then when I go and I hear more information, I take that information, and I'll share it to who I know needs that. Yeah. So I build my resources in a nice journal.

Lisa Laronde  23:01  
That's perfect. We always like to end our podcasts with what advice would you like to have given your younger self, self pleasing people,

Melissa Alexander  23:08  
please yourself?

Lisa Laronde  23:09  
I think that's awesome advice.

Melissa Alexander  23:11  
Because I was doing that when I was a kid. It's always make my parents happy, make my teacher happy. And all that there's not even Adan data says most of what makes you happy. And now, what came with the trades is me being a peer worker of me being a mentor, which like this is me like thinking when I was 18. I wish I did it at 18. Because I'd be more effective. Now.

Lisa Laronde  23:34  
If you would have done it done it at 18. Was there something like education or school or what would have made you have that change that you could have done it earlier

Melissa Alexander  23:41  
education, that guidance counselor's actually talk about more of the skilled trades and what it is? I think I would have easily went into like carpentry right there because I went to a technical school. And they have everything Yeah, yeah, so even a job fair in the school, or some kind of symposium in my school, I think I would have got into my trade back then.

Lisa Laronde  24:05  
Which is awesome. So hopefully, we can change a few lives of people getting into the trades earlier. Melissa, thank you so much for sharing your story with us today. Please continue to inspire, mentor and empower the next generation of skilled trade professionals and leaders now Thank you, Lisa,

Melissa Alexander  24:21  
I'm happy to be part of this and be able to share my journey and also, you know, my love for the trades, my my love for advocacy for women in the trades. And also, you know, advocacy for second chances because I feel that sectors always left being left behind and I feel it's time for you know, everybody to you know, if somebody is going through something, give them a second chance. You never know. I

Lisa Laronde  24:50  
agree and I think you need to keep keep doing what you're doing and keep sharing the stories and keep promoting second chances and let's change the stigma so people when they get out of prison actually have an opportunity to be part of any workforce, but it would be really nice to have to be part of skilled trades. Exactly. You can learn more about today's guests in the show notes and at the powerhouse dash project.com. And if you know anyone in the skilled trades who'd like to be on the show, you can send in a voice note or a message on the website. Please follow and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And thank you so much for listening. Find more information about our guests and more at the powerhouse dash project.com And subscribe wherever you get your podcasts