Miranda Steele: 'Ellevating' Women in Leadership

Lisa Laronde  0:03  
Welcome to the powerhouse project, a podcast empowering and celebrating women, and more importantly, an opportunity to share our stories. I'm your host, Lisa Laroche. Today I'm very excited to welcome Miranda Steele, a strategic communications executive, a consultant, and the President of Elevate Toronto, a women's network dedicated to changing the culture of business. Miranda, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks so much for having me. I'm super excited about this conversation. I'm excited to actually learn more about elevate Toronto, and your experiences in changing business culture, I'm sure we're just gonna have so much in common. But I wanted to start a little just the beginning just to get to know you a little bit. And then if you wouldn't mind engaging me in the business culture, because I think that's just an important topic for me, as well as people that are listening to the podcast. So what actually inspired you to begin your career in strategic communications? And actually, even how would you describe your strategic communications? Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, when you look back, probably at your childhood, where it came from your roots, you probably always see the signs over why you ended up where you ended up. I think I've always been a writer, I've always been, you know, full of interest in words, I think my mom used to always tell me that, like I needed to stop using 25 cent words, when like a five cent word was going to do just fine. And I've always been a dot connector, somebody who really wants to kind of figure out the patterns, how to put things together and tell a bigger story with the smaller things that are happening around me. And so, you know, when I kind of look at those pieces, it feels really natural to say that I landed in strategic communications. For me, that's really all about storytelling, and bringing pieces together to take all of those small pieces and make them whole and make them bigger, whether that's, you know, helping a leader like yourself with all of the ways that they show up in the world to have an even greater impact, whether it's helping a brand, manage the reputation, figure out how to turn their, you know, employee engagement and their ESG platform, and how they manage issues into one holistic way to be all of those things together are really what I think about when I think about strategic communications, and how we can tell bigger stories that have a bigger impact in the world. That's awesome. I mean, it's very, very interesting topic. For me, you have an extensive background, and I think we first connected on LinkedIn. And I believe you were working with global brands, I believe you were working with McDonald's. Is that correct? Yeah. And so what was that experience, like I have about a 25 year career in corporate first in telecom, for about a decade really focused on Canada. And then I spent a decade leading corporate relations for McDonald's in Canada, which was just an amazing opportunity. I joined when the company was like on the beginning of a turnaround. You know, if you're Canadian, and you think about McDonald's, you might think about coffee, which is something that's actually quite exceptional in the world of McDonald's. And so we had a leader at the time, who really just had a vision for how coffee, he was going to turn the business around, I got to work alongside him in bringing that to life. And it was such an amazing experience. And so I spent 10 years kind of building on that with McDonald's in Canada, oversaw communications, government relations, you know, an increasing ESG footprint. And then I was able to step into the international side of the McDonald's business and spent about four years working on the global brand, which my team oversaw over relations in 80 countries around the world. So really focused on Asia, Middle East, Africa, South America and pockets of Europe, which is so fascinating. You know, what I always tell people pat me at McDonald's, as long as it did was that there were no two days the same. And everything that happened in the world happened at McDonald's.

Miranda Steele  3:43  
That just kept it so interesting. And it's a company that just has some phenomenal people. And you know, really never a dull moment. I read them, maybe this I'm not sure if this is accurate or not. But the company that actually sold the coffee into Tim Hortons, actually, they had a falling out. And now the producers of the coffee actually sell to McDonald's, which is why McDonald's coffee is tasting so much better these days than in the previous days. So do you have any insight is that accurate? I think there's like a little bit of myth and a little negative truth there somewhere as their is

Lisa Laronde  4:16  
the coffee story. McDonald's is pretty great. You know, the one thing that actually people don't talk about because they think it's people want to hear a great story about kind of the new providers or what the magic is. I think one of the big things that made a real difference was really just consistency and actually training the people that so that you knew when you were getting a cup of coffee, you know, the McDonald's and you know, Stovall or the McDonald's in Timmins like you are getting that same reliable cup of coffee. And so that's kind of like the, you know, a little bit unsexy side of the story that actually made a massive difference out there. Yeah,

Miranda Steele  4:49  
that's incredible. So when you were part of the global brands, did you travel?

Lisa Laronde  4:54  
I did. Yeah. I did a lot of travel in that role. So it was I had a team who were based in San Before Dubai, London, and then pockets in the US as well. And so whether it was traveling to see them traveling to spend time with the markets that we were serving, or bringing everybody together for team meetings, and our headquarters was in Chicago, so it did involve a lot of a lot of travel and just a lot of opportunities to really get in the field and see what was happening with the brand on the ground.

Miranda Steele  5:21  
So then were you based in Toronto? Oh, you're based in Toronto? And then you just traveled to the to the other? Yeah. So would you see any cultural change? I mean, obviously, you would. So what was your give me some kind of, you know, just either stories or experiences that you had, just traveling to different countries and what your experiences was, like, for sure.

Lisa Laronde  5:36  
I mean, I think the McDonald's brand is a really interesting one to work on globally, because, you know, everybody has an opinion about McDonald's, it's a brand everybody has some sort of experience with, and that totally varies wildly around the world. You know, in some markets, it's a, you know, it's perceived as like a lower end fast food kind of option. In other parts of the world, it is a treat that you you know, proudly and excitedly take your family out for the restaurants themselves can be quite different. You know, there's business partners around the world who are investing in the brand. And it is such a point of pride for them. So you know, a business owner in the Middle East might invest a lot more money in the materials in their restaurant in marble floors, like things you'd never imagine in North America, where it's like, how reusable can we make this bench because it's the morning the wear and tear that it is going to get is a very different thing than you know, definitely Sunday morning family get together that's happening in a different part of the world. The food is also quite different, like McDonald's has, like a core menu around the world or certain things you're always going to be able to get they're going to, you know, look and feel like that taste of home that you're familiar with. But then there are things like, you know, in Malaysia, I think it was like, nasty Lamacq, or like whatever the you know, local breakfast of like chicken and egg and rice, and it's delicious. And McDonald's makes it like it. So it's, it's really quite interesting. I did a lot of traveling and a lot of eating in that role.

Speaker 1  7:08  
It's funny, my daughter was in Taiwan. And so we arrived, she was still teaching. And so she said, you can there's a coffee shop down the road that they speak a little bit of English if you want to get a coffee, or the McDonald's. So those are the two places to go without her at this point in time, we went to the first coffee shop, and we just we could not get across what we wanted was quite quite hysterical, because it's not a lot of tourism in the area that she was in. So we ended up going to McDonald's. So it's funny, you say that nanohole cappuccino section, but I agree with you, we've been to China, and it's the same idea that sometimes you actually walk into, you know, sit down restaurants, it's it really is a different vibe, right? You know, we always make these assumptions that everything is going to be the same. So I agree maybe the quality of food or some of the foods that they carry. But again, I guess it all speaks to, you know, culture.

Lisa Laronde  7:50  
And I think one of the things that was so interesting and different to was, you know, that's kind of the external side. But for me, What's always interesting too, is the internal piece. And so you know, how, as a team who you know, all working on, you know, common mission for a common brand, but dealing with really different day to day realities of how you're managing stakeholders, how you're involved in different parts of the business, and all of that has cultural nuances and implications as well. And I think, you know, working for, you know, a big American brand, who does have local ownership and, you know, local presence around the world, like this, in my role, I was always doing a lot of like, a lot of explaining and a lot of bridging. So a lot of really trying to help people see what's the same, but also really what's different. And so, you know, that is a great marketing idea, or that is a reasonable way to think about managing this issue that's come up. But like, here's some lockouts or here's some things that we hadn't necessarily thought about or a reason that actually we can't go ahead with what you're thinking. And I think that, you know, I often used to say, like, we kind of sometimes we'd make our own geopolitics, like, you know, one country doing something that to them was super, you know, natural, progressive, you know, amazing opportunity. But things travel, you know, especially, you know, in today's world, like nothing really stays isolated. And so it's really hard to do things that have a local impact, without them also having a global impact at the same time. Now,

Miranda Steele  9:19  
would you work with predominantly teams of men, or what was your experience with women and leadership?

Lisa Laronde  9:25  
So it's really quite varied? You know, I think there's a couple of different like pieces I would I would share when I joined the Canadian business, you know, it was, this was about 15 years ago, and it's amazing to see how things have changed in that time. You know, when I joined, I was one of the few women in the room, I was definitely at an earlier stage in my career, you know, and that was, you know, very much like a male executive environment. Now, looking at that team and the team that I was part of when I left, I mean, so much more diverse diversity of perspective diversity, you know, across all the different lens He says that you would want there to be. And so, you know, really like encouraging to see how those rooms are continuing to change on the global side of the business. You know, I think communications and PR are often a female dominated profession. And so I led and was part of teams that were pretty much all women, which was actually, you know, every experience has its pros and cons. But that was probably the first time I had been part of a team of all women. And how was that it was amazing. I mean, it was what was amazing about it was, it was probably the first time in my career that I didn't feel like it really mattered that I was a woman in the room. Right. And, you know, when you're used to being the other at the table in some capacity, like, you can't not be aware of that. And every idea you bring forward and every conversation you have, and every way you show up, feels like you know, am I going to ruin this for all the others who I'm representing? And are people going to see me and you know, was this reaction because my idea wasn't good, or because I presented it in a way that, you know, didn't connect, and was that because I am who I am. And so I think what was so freeing about being part of a team of all women was like, we were just so focused on the work like I was, I mean, we had a great time, too, but like, there was just this dynamic of like that entire weight that you often don't know, you're carrying, like, yeah, it's just not in the room. And so that was really, I think, just a great piece of perspective to be able to, like work through but also to carry with me now and know kind of the difference and how that feels. On the flip side, are very female team was often the only in the room when sharing or persuading or, you know, influencing with a lot of our other stakeholders. And so I think that's a really interesting juxtaposition, too, and not that often caused, you know, and certainly in different parts of the world, you know, that was received differently, definitely.

Speaker 1  12:05  
And complicated. I know, we had Meg Masse on the podcast, and she's, she's an openly transgender woman. And she transitioned over the weekend. So on Monday, when she came into work, she's at a board meeting, and they're, you know, exchanging ideas and stuff. And her ideas don't go anywhere. And the guy who's was at the meeting last week, with the same people, you know, basically presents her idea, and then it gets accepted. And I started to laugh when I go. And it's only because of like, how you're presenting. It's not about who you are, or what you're saying. But I've told this story numerous times now. And it was interesting, something you said today was, maybe it's the way that it's being presented that it's not people aren't hearing the ideas. And so I'm starting to actually have a different perspective on that is, I mean, obviously, it has something to do their gender, but I think maybe it is something the way that way the words are being received, which is an interesting concept that I hadn't thought of before.

Lisa Laronde  12:57  
Yeah, I think there's something to that. I mean, I do my initial reaction, though, is that I do think it is still influenced by gender. And I think as women, and this is a generalization, but I'll make it anyway. But But I do think you know, you're, you're so used to not expecting everybody to take everything you say like you're always trying and listening how other people do it. And like, I think you're aware of it, where I do think when you're again generalizing, but some of the men in business who have that expectation of leadership, or who have sort of, you know, come into that, like legacy understanding of what being a male leader might look like, I think that lens, they've never needed that lens. And so I think it is true, I think you're absolutely right, I think it's like another piece of unconscious bias, were having to actually try and listen and acknowledge that, you know, actually, there's great ideas out there, like, you might need to put a different listening lens on to be able to find them. And that is part of your role. And that is part of how you advance business and how, like I think that maybe is something that can continue to develop.

Speaker 1  14:06  
And that's I think that's always frustrated me is why is the way that we look or that we present why does that haven't an impact on on our ability to, you know, lead teams or solve problems or, and I think women Britt just bring a different perspective to the table. And, and it's interesting because I had one panel discussion or was like keynote speaker, and the room was basically 98% women. And I actually said to them, I'm intimidated. This is the very first time I have been in front of a group of women, all of my conversations in my industry are all for men, and everybody was laughing so but it's it's just a different perspective when people actually, you know, understand what you're talking about. And you know, or have traveled a little bit in your shoes or maybe something I say resonates with them because this is what they've been exposed to. And I think now as I'm trying to get allies to to come with us and I'm starting to say things you know, you don't know what it's like to be a woman in this industry or just just to be deal in some of the meetings that I'm in that has nothing to do with what I'm saying or, or my ideas, it just, it's strictly has something to do with, with what I look like. So it's just an interesting dynamic for me. Are you the founder of the women's network? So

Lisa Laronde  15:13  
I am the president of the Toronto chapter of elephant, Women's Network. Yeah, so it's a global network chapters around the world, predominantly in the US, but also chapters in Dubai and Europe. And so we're one of the International chapters based out of Canada, and I joined about four years ago, and I've been President for the last year and a half now. But I've been with a number of women's networks. Across my career, both McDonald's where I lead, the Women's Network in Canada also had a lot to do with my team, and just general like leadership within the international networks. And even when I was back in telecom at TELUS I was part of their women's network as well. So I've seen a lot of internal networks. And then elevate is one of the like, is an external network that I've been part of for the last few years. So

Miranda Steele  16:00  
what would be your take on what we can do is, you know, organizations or businesses that don't have the resources that somewhere like a McDonald's or a TELUS has to be able to either support women that are trying to move up in leadership, or you know, how we can support one another or form networking groups so that we can actually share stories?

Lisa Laronde  16:21  
Yeah, yeah, I think there's a ton that we can do. I mean, I actually, it's part of what I love about elevate network is that it is industry agnostic, and it's level agnostic. Like our events are very accessible, we offer a lot of virtual events that are low cost or free. And then we offer, you know, in person events that are also like, quite accessible to people who want to come and join. And I think that, to me, is really different than some of the internal networks that I've been part of. And I think there's two really different purposes. I think, with some of the internal networks, I think they're incredibly well intended. And I think there are some organizations who do a fabulous job. But I also think there's always an element of like, you're wearing your job while you're there. Yeah. And so you know, no matter who you are in the room, it's not really a safe space, like you are still, whoever you are in your day job, you are still trying to climb whatever ladder or lattice you are currently on. And, you know, I think sometimes that gets a little lost. And I also think there's a lot of pressure on organizations to demonstrate their dei metrics. And women's networks often kind of fell victim to like a check in the box. And you know, are we doing it? And often the women are like, what are we doing this for like, and yet the women are the ones doing the work. So, so that's been some of my experience kind of in house, and where I think an organization like elevate does a really nice job is it is purely about making authentic connections and hearing stories and learning from others. And, you know, I do think that that's a little bit different, even some of the other, you know, external networks that are really heavily corporately numbered. You know, I think those can often feel like you have to be a certain place in your career or have a certain paycheck, or a certain organization is willing to foot the bill to join an art of what I like about Elevate is that it is so grassroots that it really is, you know, an opportunity for everybody. And that has been a little bit different for me, and part of why I have a lot of heart for it.

Speaker 1  18:15  
I think that's awesome. I know, I'm the president of the Canadian Association of Women in construction. And, you know, we're trying to attract and retain women into the skilled trades. And we were at an event and a gala. And there was a minister Williams was there. And so she asked him, the audience, you know, how many of you are, you know, that actually are on the tools? And there was, you know, maybe out of the 500 people that were there a smattering of people? And then we started talking about that, yeah, well, you gotta think about it, which is exactly what you said is, you know, if you're in the trades, you're probably part of a union, you're probably not a full time employee. And you may be, but to actually ask your employer to fund your ticket to go to the event, it's probably not happening as people that are at these higher levels or mid middle management or even higher, that, you know, probably get companies to pay for that. So it's interesting that, you know, we're all trying to promote women in skilled trades, women in leadership, but really, we're, I don't think we're inclusive plant is a bad thing to say, but it's hard to get these people to come out to some of your events if, if they're not at the right, right face. So do you feel like elevate has done that or starting to do that?

Lisa Laronde  19:17  
I think elevate that definitely is trying to do that. Sometimes it's hard to do the good you want to do and there's also money on the line, and it is a for profit organization. But what I appreciate about it, is that, you know, our mantra, especially from a Toronto chapter standpoint, has really been you know, are we breaking even, are we making money that we can reinvest in our community and our events, and that that's really the goal and so we're not trying to create profit, we're trying to create community. And I think that that is what feels a little bit more authentic to me about it and why I feel so like passionate about telling other people to come to our events and join because nobody's getting rich off it which you know, quarters might come after me for saying that, I don't think. But that's not the point. And I think that that we're some of it gets lost when it's, you know, can we tick a box, can we drive another stream of revenue like dei is great business, but dei shouldn't be a, you know, a lot a line item in your business like, so I think that that nuance is is part of where I want to see things go and why I have a lot of heart for building community that feels like it's not about a bottom line, but it's really just about connecting people hearing from others. And I also really liked that it's industry agnostic, because I do think that, you know, and I've worked in a few different industries, and I think there's something to learn from all of them. But I think we have so much more in common across industry across role, you know, across life experience. And, you know, when you only hear in one place, you start to, it's easy to think like, oh, you know, this just applies to us, or this is only our problem, or, you know, when I think back on some of the earlier things that I struggled with, in my career, I often felt like, you know, the work I was doing, the role I was in, it was so, you know, confidential, proprietary as chief of staff to somebody very senior, you know, I felt like I really needed to kind of like keep it all under wraps. And, you know, if I had had of a team, like, if I had had a, you know, a people and a community at the time, I think that would have been in a really different position to, you know, to manage and to, and to grow. And so, you know, I really want that for other professionals. Now, you know,

Speaker 1  21:25  
and I feel the same way when I started in this role, and that I talk a lot about that is I really needed a community, you didn't necessarily have to be in my industry, but somebody that was in this leadership role, so that I could just share some of my stories, and, and really, I think, just sometimes to hear the sound of my own voice to understand whether, is this something seriously that we should be dealing with? Is this something that I can let go, you know, what have you been exposed to, and I think if we can share our stories and our challenges and our journeys, and then people understand that, you know, we can overcome them. And then together, we can, you know, I think, create solutions and ideas. Because now what I say is we need to educate people to understand when you have women in these roles, in any role, the behaviors that were accepted bull, you know, 1015 years ago just aren't anymore. Yeah. But you don't know that. And unless somebody actually says to you, hey, that, you know, we don't we don't do this anymore, or this isn't appropriate. But I think the more that we share our stories of what's happened to us, or what's happening to us now, I think, the more people don't feel alone. So I think what you said about, you know, you finding a community is just so important. When I talked about construction, the more people that I've talked to, it's funny, we all have exactly the same issues. So it's not truly only in the male dominated, or the male lead industries, it's, it's across the board, for sure.

Lisa Laronde  22:41  
I love the story that you told about. And I think it was, like, you sort of called somebody out in a meeting. Yeah. And, and I love that story. Because I really think there's so much the idea of, you know, it's great to be polite, and to go behind the scenes and make sure that nobody feels threatened. But I and when somebody has done something that you know, kind of sets the wrong tone, or isn't something that should be tolerated anymore. But I actually, I think that there needs to be more of that too. Because I think when we only have conversations one on one, only have them behind the scenes when we don't actually share, you know, then I also think it normalizes sometimes people misstep, and like, it's okay, to misstep, and hear about it from a colleague and come back to the meeting the next day and do better, like, I think, you know, we've I feel like having those conversations in plain sight helps more than feeling like it's always got to be behind the scenes, because I actually think that's been part of the problem, too, is that, you know, I, you mentioned also being known for your eye roll, like I very much is known for my lack of poker face. And for a number of years, I tried very hard to have a poker face. And then, you know, I kind of got over it. And like I do have a poker face when I want to. But sometimes I actually don't really think that it's warranted. Like sometimes I want people to know that actually, I'm not fully in alignment, or, I want to talk more about this, and I want you to hear that I have a different opinion. And I think I'm more always trying to be nice, and you know, be liked. And it's hard not to be liked. But I do think, you know, that's something that and I say this like as a woman for sure. Like I worry more about being liked, and I think men do in the workplace. And, you know, I worry about, you know, getting the job done. And and it's okay, if that, you know, comes with a little bit of you know, of rub. Yeah.

Miranda Steele  24:29  
And it's interesting when I went through the executive coaching and you do the 360. So, you know, you do your own evaluation, and then what everybody thinks to you. And so she goes, Oh, well, here's your differentiators go, I know that and I'm going I get I get how people take that's not who I am as a person, but I get that I come across that way. And sometimes it's really important that I come across that way. I think it's important to that. Exactly. You're saying I don't want to be nice. I don't need to be nice. I don't need to say hey, please don't do that again. I'm gonna say fuck you. You're an asshole, because that's the truth and maybe, maybe that's harsh way to come across And my partner, my life partner will say exactly the same thing. And I go at some point, you got to put yourself in my shoes that I'm the I'm the recipient to all of this stuff. And at some point, it has to stop. And yes, I could be, hey, you know, please don't do this in the future. And I could find a nicer way to do that. And I'm not saying that that's the wrong way to go. But but you have to also say to me, it's okay that I'm, I'm frustrated, I'm fed up. And I think I deserve the opportunity to say, hey, and I think

Lisa Laronde  25:25  
as a leader, knowing when you want to play both of those hearts is exactly like, but having permission to like, that people will hear when you do both, and then knowing that, like as a leader, it was warranted. And I really do think like being able to do that, and like have all of these perspectives and behaviors normalized is part of the value of a community of women who can talk openly about, you know, what I felt like overstepped, but actually, here's the impact it had, and, you know, people see me differently, because I feel comfortable saying what I, what I needed to say it like, you know, being able to test things out in a safe space, is, I think, a huge piece of what's valuable about having a women's network and a group that you can do that. And

Speaker 1  26:09  
I agree. And I think that, you know, as women, we have, you know, different challenges when we're going through this leadership role. And even as recently, as last week, you know, I had someone say to me, Lisa, I'm, you know, one of your biggest fans and, and I really liked what you're doing on the podcast, and I liked that you're you're unapologetic. But can you tone it down a little bit, I was like, wait a minute, that's a process of like, at some point, you have to recognize you can't say on one hand, you think what I'm doing is a really good thing. But then I'm a little bit over the line. Anyway, I was laughing. And I said, You know what, I'm still dealing with it. And when I try to talk to the to the next generation of this young generation coming up as to say, you know, if you're going to believe all the bad things that people say, then you gotta believe all the good things that people say about you equally. And that doesn't always happen. I think that's a traditionally women thing. But But I said, You got to stop to some degree, caring what people think about you. I mean, I think you have to be true to yourself and your core values. And obviously, you know, I think you need to be nice to people. But I really do believe you need to listen to your own internal voice. And you can't always change for what the business world wants you to, to look or to sound like, yeah,

Lisa Laronde  27:20  
I give similar advice to him. And when I think about, you know, I mentioned like when I first joined McDonald's, and I was the only woman and I was early in my career. And I was working in like an advisory role to the president of the company at the time, who had an executive team that was entirely male, and really like tenured, seasoned, fantastic leaders, but who weren't used to having a woman in the room. And it definitely was a new dynamic that, you know, I was very sensitive to. And there was, I think there was definitely a feeling of like, you know, who does she think she is? Like, you know, and, you know, I definitely think that I want to believe some of that has an is changed, you know, I think I wouldn't be in the same position today.

Speaker 1  28:08  
But do you think that's because you have experience now and you're older? Like, do you think that that's because I agree with you, but I'm not sure now, whether it's just that? I think I can? I don't know, I don't know if it's because I have more competence?

Lisa Laronde  28:20  
Yeah, no, I think I mean, well, partly, I want to think that there wouldn't be the same, you know, very homogenous leadership team around the table, maybe that I think that's part of it, you know, because at the time, I was encouraged to do a 360, you know, get everybody's feedback. And then I was encouraged to, you know, have a mentor, and it was somebody who was really liked by, you know, everybody in the organization. And, you know, there were just a lot of things about it, that when I look back on it, I'm like, this is such like, an old school way of helping a woman be a woman in business. To fit in fit in exactly. It was like, you know, let's and I had a really great boss at the time, who was just like, This is bullshit. He was like, no, like, but there was, you know, if I wanted to succeed, there was definitely a lot of meeting in the middle and the middle was somewhere probably a lot less than the middle than I thought there should be, you know, and that, I think, is the value of like diversity around a table because you don't have hopefully, you don't have one person whose experience is the, the outlier. You know, everybody has something different that they're bringing to the table. You're not having a team of, you know, really homogenous thinkers who have very similar experience, and a very similar background. And then anybody else who comes in is rubbing people in whether it's a wrong way or a new way or something they don't understand and they don't have a reference point. You know, I found early in my career, a lot of the senior men I worked with A reference point to having you know, a woman in decision making conversations was a wife or a daughter. And, you know, so you often get, you know, treated like a wife or a daughter. And like, yeah, I, you know, we don't have enough time to talk about all the things. And so I really do believe that a lot of that wouldn't feel the same today. Yeah, not everywhere, but in enough places that now I think it's a lot easier to call out when something feels like, you know, hey, you might not have meant it like this, but I need to tell you how that feels to me like, and, you know, how can we work together in a way that really reflects the fact that we're colleagues here. And, you know, like, I think those conversations, and some of it is definitely just because I'm, you know, in a different place in my career and different agents stage. But I also, you know, when I talk to younger people in, you know, the Women's Network, who have been on teams, they lead, like, they're so much less tolerant of things today. And I think that is phenomenal, like, I want, I want them to have all the space in the world to make it right and make it comfortable. And I have a lot of confidence that that is going to happen. Yeah,

Speaker 1  31:08  
and I agree with you. And I was holding out for this Gen Z generation quote that that actually, you know, went to school and, and have been exposed to so much more, and they traveled so much more. So now you're exposed to different cultures. And you have a really interesting perspective when you actually travel to different countries. And then you can understand how things work. But it's interesting, I was talking to a young, she's a lawyer, 27 years old, said, you know, went to Queen's University in Kingston and had lots of women in her her university, lots of women in her law school cohort, and then chose a law firm that had lots of women partners, so didn't have any of this, you know, preconceived about working and even, you know, a predominantly male LED industry, is there any of that because, you know, had just grown up and had traveled globally as well. So I had a lot of experience. And then she said, she gets her first client, and he goes, I don't want you represent me, because you're a young woman, and the judge isn't going to take you seriously. So she goes, I don't know, it doesn't. It didn't happen throughout all of this time. But actually, now it's my clients. And so I'm like, you know, what, we haven't actually prepared this generation to say, there's still a lot of people that have not changed, and that we tolerate, you know, and whether that's, you know, a grandfather or say, you know, this, they're too old, they're not going to change and, and I still think that partially through telling our stories, and, and sharing our journey, that at least they understand that it will change. It's just going to take some time. Yeah.

Lisa Laronde  32:28  
I, that story both gives me like, hope and also like, I know, but I know, ya know, and I think I mean, unfortunately, the work isn't done, you know, and I think that that's there. That's the reality. I mean, you see it every day, you know, I like I definitely don't think that Well, I know, it's not it's not finished. But I do think there's a lot of progress. And I think that telling our stories and having open spaces to share and talk about it is a huge, huge part of making that change. Because when we all just keep it to ourselves and meet people in the middle, which is not really the middle. Yeah, I love that, that the line doesn't move the way it needs to. And I think when we actually like come out and say like, Hey, this thing happened to me. I wish I had been bolder, I wish I had, you know, told people but I wasn't in a position to do that. And so, you know, knowing people are still as they're starting their career not in a position to put their foot down and still continue to grow and succeed. Like how do we create spaces and communities that empower everybody to draw that line in a different place, because that is where it needs to go.

Miranda Steele  33:40  
And I agree, I think that's what we need to do is empower we need to speak up, we need to know that it's okay to speak up. And sometimes you know, we're not going to win and that's okay. But I agree with you we need we need to to be a community. So I love your words of steel, it actually when I read it on your LinkedIn, I was like, Oh, just reminds me of a superpower person was really impressive. So So what are your What are your next exciting opportunities for words of steel? Yes, I

Lisa Laronde  34:06  
just, I just launched words of steel a few weeks ago, after my 25 years in corporate, I wanted to have a new challenge and decided I just want to take that experience and apply it differently. And, you know, be able to kind of design what that looks like for me and for clients. So I've been building relationships with agencies and direct to client, working on all sorts of different and really interesting strategic communication challenges, whether it's working on leadership platforms for leaders like yourself, whether it's helping brands on how they show up in the world, or really kind of working through all sorts of different communication challenges and how brands and leaders can have an impact. So you know, I've got some exciting work up ahead, but still really building out relationships and kind of seeing where where this goes and that's a really exciting place to be. So I'm really thrilled to be kind of in a bit of a fresh space. It's fun, which is

Miranda Steele  34:58  
nice. You're in control of your own destiny. That's always a nice place to be in. So yeah, thank you so much. If you were to give your younger self a piece of advice, what would it be?

Lisa Laronde  35:08  
Find your people. You know, I think it's so easy to think that you're like one of and that there's nobody else who's going through what you're going through. And I think you know, that, to me is where there's such an advantage. Now, you know, all the different social ways to connect, you know, and build it if you can't find it.

Miranda Steele  35:25  
Thank you so much random for spending this time with us and sharing your stories with our listeners. I really appreciate it and I hope we can actually meet in person. I would love that. Yeah, this

Lisa Laronde  35:35  
has been a great conversation. Thank you so much for having me. And I'd love to continue to chat anytime I think together

Miranda Steele  35:41  
we can do some great things. I am confident we can. Awesome. You can learn more about today's guests in the show notes and in the powerhouse dash project.com. And if you know anyone that's in the skilled trades or any women that are in leadership that you would like to be on the show, you can send in a voice note or message on the website. Please follow and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and thank you so much for listening.