Victoria LaBillois: Economic Reconciliation

Welcome to the Powerhouse Project, a podcast empowering and celebrating women. I'm your host, Lisa LaRonde. On the podcast today, we have Victoria Labois. Victoria is a MIGMA, entrepreneur and the owner and president of Wedgiepec Excavation and co -owner and president of Wedgiesec Construction. She's also the vice chair of the National Indigenous Economic Development Board and a two -time winner of the top 100 most powerful women in Canada. Welcome to the Powerhouse Project, Victoria.

I'm in awe of your accomplishments. There's so much I want to discuss with you, so let's start with the obvious. How did you not only get involved in the construction industry, but become an owner of both an excavation and a construction company?

Victoria (00:42.874)
So let me begin by saying thank you, Lisa. I'm so happy to be part of this podcast series. How did I become involved in construction? A very nonlinear path. I call myself a serial entrepreneur, and my first business actually was selling t -shirts on the powwow trail. And then I learned a thing or two about business over the years, and that progressed into...

Lisa Laronde (00:48.128)
Thank you.

Victoria (01:09.54)
passive income, buying my first apartment building. I sold purses during the evening. I was always looking for opportunities. And wind energy came to our traditional territory in a big way in Gaspé -Z. I managed to get on a job site one day in Carleton, Quebec, just a few miles down the road. And I did a SWOT analysis of what was happening in this industry. So I should say that I did work.

for the Indigenous Public Service for a number of years and sat at many tables where we talked about economic development, we talked about entrepreneurship for our people, but seemed to be spinning in circles. So when I saw this new industry come to our territory, I said, well, this is where we're gonna get in on the ground floor. Our community was already involved in met testing, wind energy, they had installed towers.

So they were looking at this as a viable industry to get involved in. And when I went on this job site, I just spent a day there and looked at everything that was involved from the trenching that was happening, the dust suppression, of course, all of the excavation, the grubbing, the cement, just everything. And the low hanging fruit for me was excavation. And I have to admit, knew nothing, nothing, nothing about it.

but wrote myself a little post -it note and put it on my vision board back in 2009, I'm going to start an excavation contracting company. So that's how I got into Wedgie Beck excavation. And I started by leasing my equipment, as you know, equipment, heavy equipment, very expensive. So I cut my teeth by leasing. My first year I had a 34 ton excavator, I had a rock truck and I had a loader and...

Lisa Laronde (02:42.37)
Wow.

Victoria (02:59.95)
you know, learning about maintenance, learning fuel expenses, float cost and operating. So as the years progressed, I was looking at a growth strategy that involved acquiring my own equipment, what was more feasible. So I did that for about five, six years and then started running into some barriers, of course, along the way.

and inability to access or to secure bonds to be able to bid on bigger projects. So it was just this little minor player on a number of wind park construction sites across the Guest Bézé. So I secured a partner. And at first we were just putting in one -off bids. We didn't create a formal joint venture.

And we were never successful, but we were learning each time along the way. And I think building that relationship where we could trust each other. And finally, after I think maybe two years, we formed, which was at construction. So that's how the heavy civil took off and helped to bring Mi 'kmaq trained skilled resources to projects across our traditional territory with that company.

Lisa Laronde (04:19.074)
So, how did you, even to lease your first piece of equipment, did you have savings built up in order to start this business or?

Victoria (04:26.998)
Yeah, good question. I didn't have a rich uncle to call upon. So I was still working. I was working full time up until then and had put together a little nest egg. And this is so funny. I remember putting, opening up the bank account, you know, you're setting up the company and I was incorporating and doing all those steps on my own.

And I remember I went and put $1 ,000 in my Wedgiebeck bank account and just so proud of that. I think I wrote one check and they're gone. And that was just to cover my initial license, my Régis de Batima de Québec license. Now I have no cashflow already. So yeah, there was some very lean years in the beginning. And I told you, I had no experience in this industry. I learned very quickly that,

Lisa Laronde (05:04.258)
Yep.

Lisa Laronde (05:11.842)
Later.

Victoria (05:23.93)
I mean, it's 90 days to get paid, which is 120 days. So in the first year of operation, I put my first piece of equipment on the ground on April 26, 2011, momentous day. I won't forget it. And I think we got out of the red by October of that year. So I was leaning heavily on my personal lines of credit, my personal savings, trying to

Lisa Laronde (05:26.946)
Yeah.

Victoria (05:53.498)
build this in. And when I say it, lines of credit, it was like taking from Robin Peter to pay Paul over here and waiting to get paid and chasing that down. And I was chief cook and bottle washer in the early days, you know, just doing the accounting and troubleshooting and running parts up to the machinery. It was fun. It was fun.

Lisa Laronde (06:14.274)
Now, did you have a crew that you worked with or?

Victoria (06:18.778)
So what I did is when I leased the equipment, I would secure operators from the community to work on the equipment. So a very skeletal crew in the beginning.

Lisa Laronde (06:24.514)
Okay, yeah.

Lisa Laronde (06:31.906)
That's amazing. And so have you grown obviously from there to where, can you say how big you are now or?

Victoria (06:39.674)
With the Wujusiq Construction, our largest project, we had over 22 employees and that was a source of pride. Now I have to say that when I originally built these companies, it was to work outside of the reserve. There are little excavation and contracting companies that exist in the community. What I was eyeing,

was all of the economic activity that was happening across our traditional territory and yet continued to exclude our people. So it was very intentional when I designed Wedgie Beck Excavation in Wodzuzik was to work off reserve. I didn't start accepting work in community until of course COVID hit and I thought that was the end of us, right? Because it shut right down. But it turns out it saved our skin back in 2020.

Lisa Laronde (07:29.346)
Right? Yeah.

Victoria (07:36.666)
we had an installation project. We were installing water and sewer on this road in our community. It was a dirt road, Kaplan Road. And here's the irony. That road, I used to pick bottles on it when I was a kid. And fast forward, I'm not going to say how many years later, many, many, many years later, we're running a project, you know, employing our people and seeing...

Lisa Laronde (08:00.354)
That's awesome.

Victoria (08:03.862)
the quality and the talent of our skilled tradesmen and women working in community for the betterment of our community. It was a very proud moment for us.

Lisa Laronde (08:13.634)
That's awesome. What's been one of the more challenging situations you've encountered and how did you overcome it?

Victoria (08:21.978)
The challenging situations, I have to go back to the money. Money is tight and, you know, looking to even lease heavy equipment is quite costly and very impactful on your cash flow. It just burns right through. So I was looking to purchase equipment and I had a strategy over the years how we would build Wedgie Beck.

Lisa Laronde (08:27.938)
Yeah.

Victoria (08:52.506)
I encountered a major barrier. My first piece of equipment I purchased was the, I bought a used excavator in 2012 and that's that I called the excavator my money, my money maker because it was always working. And then I needed a loader. So what happened is I had secured my first year round contract and I was so proud, you know, a winter contract because when winter hits guest busy here, I'm talking like 12 feet of snow.

Nobody's working. So I had this winter contract a 12 -month contract. I needed a loader. I call up my equipment dealer who by then I had fostered a very positive working relationship and based on my word they sent the loader out. I said listen, I said I'll get the financing. It'll catch up with you really quick. I sent him a $10 ,000 deposit. I said this will go fast. So I approached my bank.

the bank of the day that I was dealing with, that I had already had my loan for my excavator. I had a mortgage there for an apartment building that I had purchased 10 years prior. I had a very positive working relationship with this bank. And they reassured me that they had this new loan system in place that I was going to be so impressed how quickly the money is going to come about. Long story short, my machine starts working up there.

There's no loan yet. So I got to make a lease payment. Lease payments are double what you'd pay for a loan. So that happens. I'm calling the bank, no movement, no news. A couple of months go by. Finally, I show up at the bank. Like, listen, I just burned through my working capital here on making these lease payments. I need to secure the financing for this machine. And they sat me down.

And this is a bank I've dealt with 20 years. And they said, well, Toronto says we can't lend you the money because your status Indian living on reserve. And I'm like, you know what, Lisa, I thought I was being pumped. I literally looked around the room. Is this a what? I'm like, I've been with you for like 20 plus years. I have mortgage, I have countless accounts.

Lisa Laronde (11:03.49)
Okay.

Victoria (11:16.954)
I've purchased equipment. I asked, have I ever missed a payment? No. Ever been late? No. I have great credit. I have a business plan. I have a contract in hand. And you're telling me because who I am and where I live, now you're not lending me money. Did somebody make a mistake on those previous loans? Like really? Like a woman is squirming. I felt for her, but I'm like, what, what, what, what's going on here?

So I asked them to put this in writing to me because again, I was in disbelief and I've got this equipment working for me. So I went out and I secured funding from two other bodies. One of them was the IFI and then another was a leasing company and I played them off against each other to get a better interest rate and took the lowest interest rate.

After I let that sit with me, what the bank had told me, it left a very bad taste in my mouth. But you know what? I'm running a business here and you know what the day to day is like. I get caught up in this. So after a couple of months, after my down season into winter time, I said, you know, I can't, I can't just sit on this. I need to speak up. I need to speak out. So I challenged the bank and I launched a human rights complaint and it took another maybe five, six months.

to get the hearing. It was held across the river in Camelton. So they bring in their big VP from Halifax and their lawyer. And I show up with my support person who had a human rights degree, by the way. So we show up at this meeting and dressed to the nines and I've got all my files lined up and I'm ready. And I spoke for a good six hours. I'm telling you, yeah, it was pent up. And I'll tell you what I was thinking about.

not me, because I had found other financing for this. But I also serve as a mentor and a coach to many other young people in business. And I'm thinking about these young people. You know, you go to a bank, you've got a great idea, and you're going to go forward. And all of a sudden, because you where you live and who you are, they're not going to lend you money. What about the four C's of credit? Didn't you look at my character or my capacity? No, you look at...

Victoria (13:42.106)
I'm First Nation and I live on reserve. I'm not changing either of those for you. That's where I come from. So that's about as much as I could tell other than I was very happy with the outcome of how that went. And I don't think that bank is going to forget anytime soon because I gave them quite a lengthy history lesson on...

Lisa Laronde (13:44.61)
shocking.

Yeah, I know I showed you.

Victoria (14:07.93)
the decimating effects of colonialism on our traditional economies, how we were excluded from the emerging economies, how we're in an economic renaissance. At that time, we weren't talking about reconciliation yet, but I said, we are rebuilding our economies and we're doing it with or without your help. You are going to know who we are. We're here.

Lisa Laronde (14:31.074)
Which is awesome. So in 2022, the National Indigenous Economic Board launched the National Indigenous Economic Strategy for Canada. Can you talk about why we need to talk about economic reconciliation for Canada's Indigenous people?

Victoria (14:48.154)
Absolutely, and it's necessary to provide that context because people ask that question, well, why do we need economic reconciliation to begin with? And it's almost placing the blame of where we are squarely on the shoulders of the Indigenous people of these territories, right? So it's a lesson in looking at what happened to our traditional economies. We were thriving, we lived in abundance.

We had very well established trade routes. We had alliances for our part, the Mi 'kmaq. We were part of the Wabanaki Confederacy along with the Wlushtiw 'w 'w 'w 'w 'w 'w 'w 'w 'w 'w 'w 'w 'w 'w 'w 'w 'w 'w

Victoria (15:41.882)
impacts of residential schools, day schools, introduction of sickness, of alcohol. So not only were our traditional economies decimated, but the economies that emerged benefiting from the natural resources across our traditional territories deliberately excluded us from participating in the economy. And then we're relegated to these swamps that they call reserves and

Here we are, here we find ourselves. So that's why we need economic reconciliation. It's in the face of all of these legislative and systemic barriers that continue to exist and impede us as we try and move forward. And the example I use of the bank telling me they can't lend me money, somebody making a decision from Toronto impacting my life here in little old Listiguch,

on the color of my skin and where I'm living, those are barriers. That's real barriers we need to address.

Lisa Laronde (16:47.138)
I agree. Now do you think Canada is doing enough for truth and reconciliation?

Victoria (16:52.922)
I think Canada is trying and, you know, we're going to stumble, we're going to make mistakes. So we can't fault anybody for trying, but we need to learn from these mistakes. And we have to have these difficult conversations, this reckoning that has to happen, that talking about the truth, what are the ugly truths that form our reality right now?

before we can get to reconciling this relationship that we had as nations and nation to nation building. And you look across the landscape, the Indigenous economic landscape, there are no two communities or nations that are at the same place. Some of the communities are more progressive and advanced in where they're at, and some are just starting because we're tackling such a plethora of issues all at the same time.

How much energy and resources and capacity do we have to put into economic reconciliation? First, we've got to put roofs over people's heads, look at the housing crisis that exists, the water crisis, access to fresh water. So.

Lisa Laronde (18:01.346)
Now, the Indigenous population is actually one of the fastest growing populations in Canada. So why do you think that we're not engaging more in the construction industry, that we have more Indigenous workers do?

I think it's, or do you think that there's equitable access to jobs?

Victoria (19:04.25)
I'm going to speak in two parts to this one at like the macro level, and then I'm going to share a good news story with you at the micro level. So obviously this, this is what keeps me up at night, right? I'm trying to find talent to work within our organizations and we have such a big demand for engineers. I would love for my company to employ a MiGMA engineer, but I mean, the demand is so high for these types of skills.

So if we back up a little bit and look, where are we at with funding for on reserve schools? Where are we at with promoting STEM and careers in STEM and science, technology, engineering and math? Where are we? We are lagging behind in these areas. So by time our students do finish their high school education, do they have the strength and the background in STEM?

to pursue careers in engineering. And I'm using that as an example. And of course, post -secondary is not for everybody. So there are opportunities for our youth to study in skilled trades, but they need to know about these trades, that they exist, and that there are jobs that exist within these fields of study. So I'll use the example, we're talking construction for glaciers. Do they know?

what it takes to install glass and windows as an example of a trade or mill rights. What does a mill right do? So if you don't have these types of trades that exist in your community, you don't have the role modeling or the understanding of this as a career. So we need to start very young with our kids in elementary school about having these job fairs and teaching them of all because...

Lisa Laronde (20:34.69)
Yep. Yep.

Victoria (20:56.986)
We have such a great demand for all of the trades in our community. You know, not just the residential housing that's happening, but if you look at heavy civil construction, what we need pipe fitters in building the wind parks, we need wind park technicians and mill rights. We need heavy equipment operators all the time. And these aren't trades that are just reserved for the young men in our community because I see young women enrolling in these trades as well.

And that is so encouraging, but we don't see enough enrolling. So that's the piece. We need a focus on education, starting in elementary school and making sure that our unreserved schools are funded equally to provincial schools so that we can invest resources in STEM. And we have the talent. We just need to nurture talent. So I said, a good news story for you about

Lisa Laronde (21:48.034)
Yeah. And I, sorry, go ahead.

Victoria (21:54.432)
skilled trades. Back in the early 2010s, our community, Listeguch, had partnered with our sister communities, Geskabegia and Gespeg, and they were building their own wind park. So it was a wind park called Meskigukjusun. So we knew construction, we had a long runway, was going to start like in 2014. So the tribal council had secured

project funding through strategic partnership initiatives and brought in like $1 .1 million to train up the women and men of our three Mi 'kmaq communities to work in the skilled trades that are required for building a wind park. So that's where we trained a number of people, studied to be electricians, millwrights, heavy equipment operators, all of the skilled trades that we were going to need.

Lisa Laronde (22:46.72)
Wow.

Victoria (22:52.314)
and our men and women enrolled in this. So that was a big success story. And you know the size of a workforce when you're building a wind park, because of the size of our, I mean, because of the harshness of our winter, we had two construction seasons running from spring to fall and it was driven by weather, right? So over two construction seasons, we had a workforce of about 300 each season. And of that workforce, we had 111,

skilled and trained Mi 'kmaq tradespeople. And I think that's phenomenal. I tell that story all the time. And that was the vision and foresight of our leadership, you know, training our people for jobs that were going to exist down the line.

Lisa Laronde (23:41.602)
And you can take that trade anywhere. And I think that's the important part.

Victoria (23:46.138)
Portable skills, that's right. And you know what? You can take that trade and you can also start a company.

Lisa Laronde (23:52.354)
Yep. I do a lot of talking because we feel the same way. I'm the president of the Canadian Women in Construction and we're trying to get more women into the industry. And actually we're doing a pretty good job of attracting women to the industry. The problem that we're having obviously is retaining them just because of the harassment and discrimination. So, you know, we're trying to, you know, make strides there. But one of the things we did recognize was you have to start talking to the kids when they're in elementary school. By the time they've reached high school, they've already made up their mind of the direction that they're going to go and it's basically too late. So...

I mean, I think that that's really what we're all trying to do. So I wanted to congratulate you on winning an Inspire Award. And I was hoping that maybe you would spend a few minutes to, you know, see what that means to you, but also to explain what Inspire is all about.

Victoria (24:36.346)
Well, thank you for that. It's very humbling. An Inspire Award is the highest honour given in Canada to buy your peers in recognition and it's across several categories. So I was awarded the Inspire Award this year for business and commerce. And when I got the call, it was a Sunday afternoon, I was busy cooking supper and multitasking, phone rings. And when I saw a...

the number, I thought it was an emergency job. I said, Oh, something's happened here. It was a break in a water line or something like that. And no, it was Inspire calling to tell me I won. And I just went silent and I was quiet. And they asked, do you know what an Inspire award is? Are you really? Like, yeah. I said, I hold that in very high regard. And I said, I'm just a little shell shocked right here. And of course, you know,

Lisa Laronde (25:23.148)
I'm sorry.

Victoria (25:35.258)
By virtue of my role with the National Indigenous Economic Development Board, I get to meet with amazing people working in the Indigenous economic landscape. We get to travel to different communities and hear their success stories, their challenges. So my immediate thought was, I know so many deserving people who should win this award and you're giving it to me? So very...

Lisa Laronde (25:57.73)
Yeah.

Lisa Laronde (26:02.658)
That's awesome.

Victoria (26:03.866)
I'm very humbled by this, very grateful, just gratitude of course, to be recognized by my peers for this. But I have to share a story with you, Lisa. I know we're a little pressed for time here. You were mentioning how we go about increasing women in construction trades. So I got this funny story. It was about five or six years back, I was invited to speak on an Indigenous Women's Panel.

It was part of the G7 when Canada was hosting these discussions and Dr. Marie Delorme was facilitating this panel and had assembled this panel of amazing Indigenous women. So I fielded a question and they asked me if there are a lot of Indigenous women working in this space. And so I said I was very privileged to meet other Indigenous women who run their own

construction companies, two others in Quebec, one James Bay Cree and one Algonquin woman. And so I said, I was so happy to find other Indigenous women in this space. But I said, you know, I'm very happy to hire women heavy equipment operators, because I know I'm not going to worry about them trying to pop a wheelie with a piece of heavy equipment that costs a quarter of a million dollars, right? Or testosterone, and they're not going to try and test this to the limits. And I get a bunch of big eyes in the audience.

The one man in the room was the AV guy in the back doing sound. He burst out laughing and then he caught himself and I was laughing in the back. I said, I am serious when I sing. So just wanted to share that with you. I know you can relate.

Lisa Laronde (27:46.498)
Ha ha.

Lisa Laronde (27:51.33)
I definitely can relate. I can definitely relate. So looking back, did you ever think that you'd be labeled a change maker?

Victoria (28:00.122)
No, no, no, no. If I thought I was going to get a label, it would be, she who kicks indoors.

Victoria (28:10.97)
And you know, it was by virtue of again, sitting at many tables with many chiefs and council and our leadership and just banging our heads against the wall here, trying to affect positive change and just not seeing that change happening to say, you know what, we're not asking for the moon here. We're asking for our fair share to access and to be part of the regional economy.

that is benefiting across our traditional territory. So I think that's what I set out to do, to be called a change maker. I've been called far worse.

Lisa Laronde (28:49.538)
So have I. I like Changemaker. I think that's awesome.

Victoria (28:54.81)
I could handle Changemaker.

Lisa Laronde (28:57.89)
Yeah, me too. So we like to end each episode as if you could go back in time, what advice would you give your younger self?

Victoria (29:06.458)
Just do it.

Lisa Laronde (29:08.034)
Just do it.

Victoria (29:09.274)
Just do it. I didn't start my job until later.

Lisa Laronde (29:10.912)
Now, did you have help? Sorry, say that again.

Victoria (29:15.514)
I didn't start my companies until later, but I always had an interest. I had tremendous support. I have to say from my husband, who is my biggest cheerleader, Ken, to my family, to every business that I've tried to support, tried to launch, that they have been supportive and through...

Lisa Laronde (29:19.266)
Now did you have help and support? Did you have help and support to do that or were you on your own? Okay.

Victoria (29:43.45)
just positive messaging that you can do this and you're going to make this happen and yes, and just being there. And of course, my community and the leadership and the people, the employees, that's the best part of the job is I get to call someone in the community and say, hey, I got this job started starting. Are you available for work? And they're like, yes, when do I start? And you know,

that's the best part and it's very rewarding. So I get tremendous support from my husband, my family, my community. Yeah.

Lisa Laronde (30:19.65)
And I think we talk a lot about that as being women in a traditionally male -dominated industry that we really do need the support of allies and we do need to find our community. And I think it's really important that we celebrate each other and we support one another because I don't think that we do that enough. So Victoria, your journey exemplifies resilience, determination and positive impact. Please continue to share your stories and let's continue to raise up our women.

break down these barriers that we face and continue to talk about economic reconciliation and economic prosperity. Thank you so much for joining us on the Powerhouse project. I've really enjoyed our talk together.

Victoria (30:57.816)
Thank you.

Lisa Laronde (30:59.232)
Thanks.

Lisa Laronde (31:04.578)
Now do we lose, Sarah? Okay.